Press Release
October 22, 2012

TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW OF SEN. SERGE OSMEÑA

SERGE : Una sa lahat po, heto po 'yung 1/3 bridge, bago ito ah, in Aklan, where they built the bruidge hanggang sa gitna ng tubig. Pag-summer, pwede dumaan, naka-graba iyan. But during the rainy season, hindi na puwede po, tubig na lahat 'yan. Now, this is a Mabey Johnson bridge in Banga, Aklan going to Madalag.

Ang explanation po nila ditto is kasalanan daw ito ng provincial government kasi sila dapat ang magpatayo nito. Nagpadala lang daw sila ng supply ng steel bridges but the responsibility and the cost of set it up belongs to the provincial government. I have never seen such a waste of money. Maganda, malapad nga 'yung bridge, hindi ba? It's like a wide two-lane bridge, napakalapad po niyan, bale 3 lanes pa 'yan. Pero hindi naman ginagamit. Hindi naman magamit.

Q: Magkano daw po 'yan?

SERGE: I cannot get the exact cost because that's with the Regional Office of the COA. The Regional Office of the COA is trying to get the cost for me. Pero wala ditto eh. Wala ditto sa Maniila. Tinanong ko na sa COA, magkano ang cost nila ditto. Ang sagot nila, 'Sir, wala dito ang documents niyan, nasa regional office sa Iloilo. Pinapakuha natin.

Q: Foreign grant ito?

SERGE: Walang grant ito. This is Mabey Johnson. Binola tayo na may foreign grant, but there's no foreign grant in most of these. Only 2 had foreign grants. The total project cost for Balfour-Cleveland 2000 project, which was subject of a 45% grant from the British government. And the Japan, JBIC.

The first Mabey Johnson had a 35% grant, itong SALAM bridge project, that had a 35% grant. The rest were all commercial loans. Kaso denominated in yen. 'Pag denominated in yen, ang lalabas diyan, ang makikita mo, 2% interest, so grant na daw 'yun. Hindi totoo po 'yan. Walang tulong ang host country of Mabey, the host country of Matiere, dito po sa mga projects nila. Dinaan lang sa yen loan, pero kapag kinompute po natin 'yang yen loan, makikita niyo our interest rates are much higher than 2% because the appreciation of the yen goes on every year.

Q: Sino po ang nambola?

SERGE: Sino ang nang-bola? 'Yun na nga ang pini-pinpoint ko nga eh. Sa karamihan ng agencies involved, may Technical Working Group pa, may Planning Services pa, parating sinasabi nila, 'Ah, sir, order lang ho 'yan.' 'Sir, sabi nila ganito...'

Tinanong ko kanina si Sec. Singson, he was not with the department (of public works and highways) at all at the time, of course. I said, 'who takes responsibility now? Kanino ang responsibilidad na ito? Bakit ang lahat ng mga kontrata walang bidding? Eh 2 lang dito ang may ODA, ang may grant, so dapat may bidding lahat 'yan. Pero hindi rin niya alam. Minasahe ng minasahe 'yan. Pero ayaw naman nilang aminin ngayon, nagtuturuan sila. But definitely, I think all of them should be charged for anti-graft...all the secretaries, the usecs, the asecs, the insects, of the DPWH, the NEDA, the Department of Finance and the Department of Justice, and those who were in the Office of the President. Because the law is very specific eh, '...shall NOT enter into a grossly disadvantageous contracts...' Meron akong comparison, I will bring it up in the next hearing kasi wala ng oras ngayon, but the cost of other bridges, kasi may inorder din sila sa ibang bansa at mas mura...bakit hindi kayo nag-bidding? 3,000 pounds lang dito, 4,000 pounds lang dito, bakit ninyo pinili ito? The whole essence of public biddign is to allow the people of the Philippines to enjoy the lowest price, dib a? So, ayaw din niya na naka-areglo na, inayos na, napa-backdoor channel na 'yung mga supplier. Siyempre, ang mga supplier, hindi din garantisado, lumalaki pa nga ang profit nila, diba? So, kung ikaw last year nag-supply ng 1 camera worth P100,000, bakit pa ako o-order sa kanya ngayon ng P120,000 worth of camera, of the same camera? Siyempre, aangal ang taumbayan, hindi ba? Dapat umangal ang taumbayan! 'Teka muna, dapat pina-bidding mo na lang sila, mananalo malamang 'yung nag-offer ng P100,000. At baka bumaba pa 'yan sa P90,000.' And that is the reason behind the requirement for public bidding.

Mabuti kung 1 contract lang, it's hard to prove, pwede naman gumawa ng dahilan. But when you have 14 contracts without public bidding, there's something wrong. And when you can see that when you compare the contracts, 1 is cheaper than the other, and you heard Sec. Singson say it's the same, a steel bridge is a steel bridge. In the same way that a Smartphone is a Smartphone. Huwag mong sabihin sa akin na bibili ako ng IPhone ngayon, bukas Samsung, day after tomorrow, Motorolla. Kalokohan na 'yun dib a?

Q: Malinaw na ba ang link kay CGMA? Na-i-link nab a siya ngayong 2nd hearing?

SERGE: Yes. Because she's the chairman and she presides as the Presiding Officer of the NEDA Baord. And these all have to be approved by the NEDA Board. And she was present in every NEDA Board meeting. She's one president who's always present in all NEDA Board meetings, hindi ba ekonomista 'yan? She's always the presiding officer at the board meetings of the National Economic and Development Authority.

Q: Na-establish na ba natin na disadvantageous at unnecessary 'yung paggamit ng mga steel bridges imbes na concrete bridges?

SERGE: Depende... kung technical answer ang gusto ninyo, mas matibay daw ang steel, ngunit mas mahal. Bakit tayo bumibili ng Mercedes, eh ang kailangan lang natin Toyota? We can buy 2 Toyotas for 1 Mercedes. Eh 2 is to 1 ang diperensiya eh.

Umiiwas na sila ngayon pero sabi nila dati we need 15,000 bridges before. For the same amount, we can build the 15,000. But if I get steel bridges, I'll only build 7,500 bridges, hindi ba? Hindi naman tayo ganun kayaman na pwede tayong mag-waldas ng P111 billion na hirap na hirap kaming kolektahin, maski nga sa sin taxes nahihirapan kami.

Q: May mga next hearings pa?

SERGE: Oh yes, many, many more hearings. We will nail down all the loose ends. It's difficult because some of these were signed in 1999, 2000, 2001, ang hirap kumuha ng documents. But I am getting there. And I am very happy that we are finally been able to plug the gaps of our knowledge of this. Ito lang ang sasabihin ko: They have put the government into grave disadvantage by entering into contracts like these. And that's in violation of our anti-graft and corrupt practices act.

Q: Sino po ang ipapatawag ninyo sa next hearing?

SERGE: Halos pareho pa rin. Pero maraming absent eh. Like for example, not a single, except for Sec. Singson, not a single past secretary of DPWH turned up. And I am inviting Gov. Ebdane, Rep. Datumanong to come. And then the Sec. of Agrarian Reform, Rep. Pangandaman. Of course, you know, meron kaming arrangement sa House na there's some congressional courtesy accorded them, but we will invite them, hindi naman naming sila pinapadalhan ng subpoena eh. Another one who has not turned up is former DOF Sec. Juanita Amatong. And those are the Cabinet officers in the past who have not turned up.

Q: Si CGMA hindi na i-invite?

SERGE: I would like to invite her but there are problems involved naman. Nasa ospital, masakit ang likod, congresswoman, ang daming excuses niyan. But that might be a good idea. I will extend an invitation to her.

Q: How about Rep. Haresco?

SERGE: We always send him an invitation. He got an invitation for today. I wish he would turn up, he can help clarify a lot of things.

Q: May iba po bang witnesses?

SERGE: Abangan po natin. Hintayin na lang. Kawawa naman sila.

Q: (????)

SERGE: This was the President's Bridge Program. And they deliberately put this under the Office of the President. And wala kang ibang program na directly under the Office of the President na ganito. Kasi this is infrastructure. Tinatapon iyan sa DPWH. Maski 'yung JICa. Ang dami naming JICA projects, there's no Office of the President-JICA project. Bakit ito nagiging Office of the President? Pero dahil mahirap itong gawin, by 2002, trinansfer na din sa DPWH. Nilagay lang ang bata nila dun, kontrolado pa rin. Nakikita natin, kapag diretso 'yung project, pinapadaan sa Planning Services ng DPWH. Pero kapag tabingi, sa President's Bridges Program. So lahat poi to, except for the 3 projects (Balfour-Cleveland, Waarner Biro, Centunion), everything passed through the President's Bridges Program.

Q: Irregular na 'yun?

SERGE: To me, it's irregular, and I will bring it up later on. Pero tinake-up ko din naman ngayon. Tinanong ko si Sec. Singson, bakit 2 highway iyan, magkatabi 'yung 2 projects ditto. Pag diretso ang project, sa kanan. Ang sabi niya, 'I don't know.' I cannot blame him kasi wala pa naman siya dun. But I told him, 'I'm telling you, the only difference is that the corrupt projects went to the President's Bridges Program. Kasi President's Bridges program naman lahat ito eh. Pero bakit 'yung Balfour Cleveland, 'yung Waagner-Biro, 'yung Centunion, dumaan sa kanan, bakit? President's Bridges program din naman lahat ito eh, steel bridges lahat ito. What's the difference? The corrupt one, the ones with the kickbacks, went to the left.

Q: Ngayon under DPWH na lang sila lahat?

SERGE: DPWH ito, trinansfer ni Gloria sa DPWH noonh 2002-2003. Pero sa DPWH, 2 pa ang daan...ang tuwid na daan, at ang baluktot na daan. At ang lahat ng mga baluktot na contract, dumaan dun sa kaliwa. It's very clear, eh bakit hindi nila ma-explain, explain kanina? Anong diperensiya? Why would you have 2 ways of approving a contract in DPWH. One that passes through the Special Bridges Program, dumadaan iyan sa Planning Services. 'Yun pinatawag ko 'yung si Ms. Cabral, she does the evaluation. Sa baluktot na daan, hindi dumadaan kay Ms. Cabral. So, sino ang gumagawa ng evaluation? Hindi alam kung sino ang gumagawa...Ang sabi ko nga, eh kasi, ayos na 'yan eh.

Q: How much 'yung kinita dito?

SERGE: My estimate is P10B to P15B. Easy. But I hope I will be able to be more accurate in the future. Don't ask me now. Ask me about 2 months from now.

Q: Napunta talaga lahat kay GMA?

SERGE: Ay hindi naman, hati-hati 'yan. Including those who attend the hearings.

Q: Meron?

SERGE: Siyempre, SOP 'yan eh. Kaya nagtuturuan sila.

Q: Sino-sino po ang tumanggap? 'Yung asawa ba nakinabang din?

SERGE: Pareho na 'yun. Is there a division of spoils this early?

On AMLA

SERGE: Ang swerte natin, nakalusot. But i dont think we can make lusot again in Feb. bec Vic Aquino, the exec dir of AMLC was able to convinced the FATF in Paris that the Senate is making every effort to pass the AMLA amendments. But that we just had a difficult time, we missed six months of legislative work owing to hte Corona impeachment trial, so to give us a little more time. So it's only Oct., sabi nila we have break, a Xmas break. So give us until the end of Jan. We will adjourn I think on Feb. 8 for the campaign period. So they agreed. They will keep us na lang on the grey list, they will not drop us in the black list until after we will have complied with our obligations by the end of Jan. Next year.

Q: Are you positive it will already pass?

SERGE: Nothing's positive. Alam nyo namang ang gulo gulo nyan. The most traumatic bills that I have ever been through in my entire stay in the Senate have been the 2 AMLA bills. Talagang bakbakan kami sa floor, sa bicam.

Q: Why?

SERGE: Because people don't like the predicate programs. Ang pinag-aawayan nyan yung predicate crimes....

Q: Anong objectionable?

SERGE: They would not specify their objections on the floor. They're always very vague. So halos lahat now. You know we are adding 9 predicate offenses and 23 activities covered. And those who have objections don't want to state it on the floor. Pero sabi ko, ang nature ng legislature naman ilalabas mo yan sa floor at pag di tayo magkakasundo, then we have to ask the house to be divided. In other words, we have to take a vote on it. So they would not do that

Q: Did they indicate to you ano itong mga objections na they want away from plenary?

SERGE: When we we're in caucus, they'll talk about tax evasion. Bakit nandyan yung tax evasion. Bakit isasama yung real estate brokers and i did tell them that one of the biggest money laundering activities in this country is buying real estate. The big drug dealers bumibili ng real estate yan all over...they'll buy in Cebu, Davao, in Zamboanga all over yan. Tapos after one yr, 2 yrs ibebenta o legal na yan. That's why in all countries, real estate dealers r covered. They must report the transaction. Halimbawa, pag hindi sila nagrereport hindi malalaman ng AMLC that the same drug dealer bought in CDO, Davao...dun makikita sa pattern eh, di ba? If it's anybody, you and I buy, that's only one time, it will not show a pattern, we don't throw that kind of money. Kung sila, they have P200M, P500M, a billion pesos a year, syempre ayaw nila magpahalata sa city registrar.....i-spread nila yan.

Q: How does that work, the LRA will be reporting?

SERGE: If you put it all in one place, there's somebody syempre who will notice, who is this guy, I never heard of him before, na nakakabili ng napakadaming lupa all or a lot at the same time, within 6 months or one yr. But if it's in another place no one will know except the AMLC, if it is reported.

Q: Ano threshold?

SERGE: The same thing we approved about 8 yrs ago, abt $10,000 or P420,000 now

Q: Ano contention ng members nyo, bakit may problema sila sa real estate, bakit ayaw nila mag-agree?

SERGE: Abala daw, kawawa daw yung mga ahente at mga brokers. Teka muna, the other countries do it. mabuti if we're the only country but the other countries have already adopted it. nagpagawa nga ako ng matrix mga lahat ng countries. I picked 10 countries - US, UK, Japan, Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, Australia with whom we have strong economic ties. I said look, they're obeying, why do u saying that we are being singled out? We're not being singled out

Q: Maapektuhan real estate industry....

SERGE: Hindi. Maniwala ka dyan. Bakit naapektuhan ba sila dun sa kabila. Reporting lang naman eh

Let's say I were an agent. An agent has to work under a dealer. So if the transaction is over P420K, I will report it - the cash transaction huh? You don't have to report if it's non-cash. Let's say, 10% down, P42,000 lang hindi, you don't have to report that....but if the cash transaction, let's say the entire contract was for P4M, if I'm the dealer I'll just sent it to the AMLC. Ganun din mga bangko. Mga pawn brokers, art leaders because art is one of the easiest way to launder. Covered din sila. There r 23 additional covered activities

Q: Sino daw 'yung senador na ayaw?

SERGE: I would have told you if we had been blacklisted, I threatened them. Pero we were not blacklisted. So I'm happy that we're not blacklisted. But in Feb. if they pull the same stunt, I promise you I will tell the Filipino people who they are because I think that they're selling the country short. Lahat ng dahilan ginagamit nila....

Q: Sabi ni Sec. Coloma last Friday, kampante naman sila, na pwede naman daw pakiusapan...

SERGE: Well I'm glad that they're comfortable because we're not. Like I said, of the two laws that was the most traumatic for me and Sen. Jun Magsaysay because he was chair of the committee then that took up the AMLA. After we passed the second AMLA in 2003, Sen. Magsaysay resigned, ayaw na nya mag chair ng banks comm. Very traumatic ito... bakbakan.... grabe talaga. It was very intense. Blood warfare talaga. the closest we have come in the Senate to blood warfare.

Q: You mentioned that you're going to reveal their names. Ilan 'yung nagpapahirap sa inyo?

SERGE: No it would not be fair because merong very vocal, yung iba naman nagtatago lang sa likod ng iba. U know I just appeal to them. I said this is for the country. This is not a bill of Osmena. This is not a pet bill of PNoy, this is not a pet bill of Bangko Sentral, this is a requirement of the most advanced countries.

Kasi ganito, meron na tayong batas pagkatapos may malaking butas. Syempre pag nasa America ka, remember they're the biggest victims of terrorism and drugs also...nakikita mo tinakpan na mga butas all of the countries, except this Philippines, it has not...syempre iiwasan ko doing business in the Phils, because that's were the loophole is. So we will all suffer because our banking institutions will be given a harder time. Maraming bankers dyan na magba- back out. Look at what happened in Switzerland. For a long time it was the money laundering council centers daw. Americans who wanted to escape taxes wld put their money in Swiss banks so that they don't have to declare it. The Swiss have been known to have the strictest bank secrery. laws. Ano ginawa ng America? Sabi nya ok if ur going to do that to us, if u will not divulge to us who r the Americans who have deposits in Switzerland, you might as well close ur branches in the US. - Union Bank of Switzerland (UBS), Credit Suisse...2 malaki yun. Umiyak sila. They paid the fine of $800M and they gave the list of Americans who have accounts in their banks. They can do that to us and we're such a small country but we're highly dependent on doing business with those type of countries - America, UK, Japan etc. So bahala itong mga pilosopo dito. You want that to happen, you better be willing to take the heat later on.

Q: Bakit hindi ginawa 'yung amendments in one blow?

SERGE : Nag-i-improve eh nag-wi-widen 'yung amendments eh. As a matter of fact we just got a new list lang early this year lang. For example, ano sinama ngayon? Yung pawn brokers, trust companies, insurance companies, art dealers, jewelry, casinos, ganun. When we first started considering this law, we did not take that into consideration. Sila may ongoing council sila, monitoring at nakikita nila ang daming butas pala so I-plug natin. So the other countries have accepted it, they have amended their laws, and we're one of the 15 on the black list, there's another 20 in the grey list....on the 15 I think the only big countries or countries with significant economies would be Indonesia, Thailand, the Philippines and Brazil. But I advise u to Google it. I cannot remember...

Q: Of the 9 predicate crimes, 23 activities how many can u swing?

SERGE: I don't know. Kasi yung iba dyan hindi naman sila nag oobject. I remember there's 3 or 4 complain sila ng complain. Sabi ko hindi akin ito. itanong mo sa FATF.

Q: You need to pass it in one bulk...

SERGE: I don't know. I really don't know. Sabi ko whatever you're comfortable with basta meron naman tayong ipapasa hindi ba? So bahala na kung bubugbugin pa tayo eh di sorry na lang. At least I can say that I tried my best, it's not good enough. Then I can resign as banks also...

Q: Ano confidence level nyo na mapapasa, malabo?

SERGE: It depends eh. We can pass by saying approving only 3 predicate crimes more, tingi- tingi, Filipino style natin na tingi-tingi, baka makalusot pero I'm telling you there are 9 predicate offenses that are being requested to be included and 23 activities

Q: But it looks like they're not taking your warning seriously

SERGE: It's a game that's played by the Senate. Sasabihin nila sa akin, hindi naman mangyayari yan eh noon pa sinasabi ninyo ma-ba-blacklist tayo di naman tayo na black list. Ganun sila. Eh ano argument ko dun? Wala ako argument dun. Pero bakit yung Thailand, Indonesia nasa blacklist. Pagkatapos may nagsasabi na why are we being dictated upon. We're not being dictated upon. They cannot order us to pass the law. They cannot. They're just saying that these are our guidelines and if you don't, we'll put you in the blacklist.

The tax evasion will always be the most contentious predicate crime. Kasi yung predicate crime, you can freeze the account eh. Yung covered activity, you don't freeze the accnt. It's the responsibility of the jeweler or real estate broker to report. But you don't freeze his account because of that. But predicate crime, u can use that as an excuse to freeze the account.

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