TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW OF SEN. SERGE OSMEÑA

On the privileged speech of Sen. Miriam Santiago

Serge: We have rules here in the Senate on personal behavior.

Background muna. Lahat ng mga parliaments, may mga code of conduct iyan. Hindi dapat isama 'yung mga personalan (sa speeches) sapagkat matatagalan ang debate. You want to come to a vote on important issues, with the least amount of friction. Malalaman naman natin.

Let's say for example, sa House (of Representatives) natin, there are over 280 members. Aba, kung meron isa lang na magagalit diyan, wala na, made-delay na ng made-delay 'yung proceedings. And in the Senate, it's even more important sapagkat you only have 24 members, kung magkakaasaran pa kayo, eh di 6 years, maaapektuhan 'yung procedures ng various legislature initiatives.

So, therefore, we have section 93, 94, 95, 96, 97 and 98 in the Rules of the Senate that deals with Offensive Language. If there's any language na meron, kahit iisa lang na senador, which each senator deem offensive, he may stand up and move to strike from the record the offensive language.

Q: May offensive language ba kahapon?

Serge: Halos lahat ng speech niya offensive eh. Kasi pinepersonal niya eh. And you're not supposed to attack somebody personally. If she wants, she can do it outside of the Senate. The Senate has to deal with matters of national interest, hindi personalan iyan. So, for her to take the floor for one hour was even...

Q: You will move that the whole speech be stricken out?

Serge: Well, I will re-read it over this weekend. And titingnan ko po sapagkat Monday pa naman iyong session.

Q: Certainly, it's not something that you'd like your grandchildren to read in the future?

Serge: I don't want anybody to read that. I don't want anybody from America or Europe to read those type of things. Basahin mo 'yung records sa America, sa Europe, sa mga sophisticated western democracies, tinatanggal na nila 'yung mga ganyan.

Q: Definitely you will move to strike it out pero hindi pa sigurado which part?

Serge: Yes. I just got a copy now, kasi kahapon (Wednesday) lang naman 'yun, it takes time for the Senate to transcribe it.

Q: You will stand up on Monday?

Serge: I will stand up on Monday.

Q: Aside from the language, what about the behavior, 'yung panduduro?

Serge: That is also offensive, you do not do that. Biro niyo, if we start accepting that as precedent here, magkakaroon tayo ng away everyday. That's why Rules have been made. Matagal na itong mga Rules na ito. Maski nung sa Roman Senate during the time of Jesus Christ, may rules na sila sapagkat sa karamihan ng miyembro, hidni mo naman pwedeng sabihin na, 'Sige, pagbigyan mo na sila Jose o si Pablo, mag-iinsulto muna sila.' Hindi po pwede iyan. You're not even supposed to question a fellow legislator's motive. Hindi mo pwedeng sabihin na, 'Ginagawa mo lang 'yan dahil ;yung brother in-law may-ari ng PLDT...' Hindi po pwede iyan. You have to be factual. And you have to give valid reason without ascribing personal motives. Q: You found Sen. Miriam's speech to be offensive. What about the speech of Sen. Enrile?

Serge: I will also move to have that deleted.

Q: Ano po particularly 'yung gusto niyo...

Serge: Hindi ko po masyadong binasa eh. I listened to it but I'll have to go through it with a fine-toothed comb.

Q: But you're sure that you'll have certain portions of the speeches deleted?

Serge: At a minimum. Maybe we will just simplify and just move to delete both speeches from the records of the Senate.

Q: Ano pong motive niyo sa deletion, para mawala lang sa records ng Senate?

Serge: Yes. Normal naman 'yan eh. Halimbawa, may tumayong isang senador at minura ka, 'teka muna, tanggalin mo 'yun, 'yung mura.'

Q: Pero sir napakinggan na ng taumbayan, nasa radio na, nasa TV na, nasa diyaryo na...

Serge: That's right. It's already been listened to but sa official records, pwede i-delete.

Q: Anong importance na wala sa official records?

Serge: Because we don't tolerate unparliamentary language. It has nothing to do with the issue that is being debated. So, kapag sinabi ko na, 'anak ka ng pating,' anong pakialam ng pating dun? None. It has nothing to do with it, so you want to keep to the fact. And you want to keep a dignified Senate.

Q: Beyond striking out the speeches off the Senate records, is there anything else that you would want to be done? Like a censure?

Serge: Well, I will speak to the Senate President, I will speak with our fellow members. Normally, malaki 'yung allowance na ibinibigay sa Congress at sa Senate, sige, sabihin mo na kung ano gusto mong sabihin, so lalabas lahat ng mga insult, etc. kasi iyan ang gustong-gusto ng media iyan eh. So sasabihin nila kung ano ang gusto ng media para magkaroon sila ng sound bytes. But that is totally unparliamentary. And that should not be accepted as part of the records of the Senate.

Having said that... can we avoid it in the future? NO. But at least, we can have a collective decision dito sa Senado na pwede ba na iyong mga ganito huwag na nating payagan.

Unfortunately, the Senate President allowed it to happen. I would have banged the gavel already if I was the Senate President, if I was the presiding officer at the time. Sasabihin ko, ' out of order ko.' You have to do that so that the next one who will attempt to do that will be very careful na. kasi ma-a-out of order. OR, any senator could have stood up and moved a point of order, this is unparliamentary and I move to suspend the session.

Q: May pagkukulang ang Senate President?

Serge: I am not saying may pagkukulang siya. But this is a situation where he could have intervened. Now I don't blame him for not intervening also because that could have made the matters worse. But I would have banged the gavel. I definitely would have banged the gavel if I was the presiding officer. I would not tolerate that sort of thing if I was presiding officer.

Q: Yung pag-strike out ng speeches, kailangan ba with consent ng owners ng speeches?

Serge: Hindi po. We don't need anybody's approvel. Bakit siya mag-aaprove? It's a majority decision.

Q: Bakit hindi po tumayo kayo if you thought she was out of order?

Serge: number one, I was not there at the session hall, I was at the Executive Lounge, binabantayan ko ang ANC para makuha ko ang mga comments. Number two, it just went on and on, pangit naman kung mag-i-interrupt ako and Sen. Drilon might not agree. But now, it's after the fact, and it's even good because I have proof na, tingnan niyo, this is the whole speech, hindi naman kailangan na basahin kasi nalalaman naman natin na it was way out of line.

Q: Nabanggit ninyo ang feedback, meron ba kayong feedback dun sa paglalaro ni JPE ng I-pad niya habang nagdedeliver ng speech si Miriam? Unparliamentary din ba 'yun?

Serge: No, that was not unparliamentary. He was amused. His reaction during the speech and after was not unparliamentary.

Q: Yung set-up kahapon na nakatayo siya with her back against the Senate President and she was addressing Sen. Enrile directly, tama po ba yun?

Serge: If I was the Senate President, I would not have allowed that either.

Q: Paano kapag nagalit si Sen. Miriam?

Serge: Eh ano? Lagi naman siyang nagagalit eh.

Q: We can conclude na waste of time lang 'yung nangyari dun sa 2 speeches?

Serge: It's not so much a waste of time. One speech took 1 hour, the other speech took another hour. But it was the way the proceedings came about, that is not allowable under our Rules. That type of behavior, I find it very disconcerting and I am objecting to it.

Q: Personally, ano kaya ang dahilan at pinayagan ni Senator Drilon?

Serge: We have been very tolerant dito sa Senado. Kaya nga these things come out. And they get worse and worse as time goes by. Kasi we can always point out, pinayagan mo naman si so and so, kaya pasasagutin mo dapat ako. Ganun yun eh.

I want the Senate to come out and say, 'okay, enough is enough, you've gone too far. And let us adhere to the standard, classic parliamentary rules of behavior which have been in operation for probably 2000 years already.' It was the first organized efforts of the Romans to have some type of legislative assembly.

Q: Pwede bang i-refer ito sa Ethics Committee?

Serge: If you want to go that far, yes. You may refer it to the Senate ethics committee if you want to file charges for unparliamentary behavior. And the ethics committee may suspend, or expel a member by 2/3 vote.

Q: Can they do that sir?

Serge: Yes. But we don't even have a chairman, it does not exist. It exists in paper, but it does not even have a chairman. Sino chairman? Wala. Sino ang mga members? Wala.

Q: Are you willing to chair it?

Serge: No. You have to be a lawyer, hindi ako abogado. It has to be one of the lawyers.

Q: Paano kung kayo ang pag-initan niya next time because of what you plan to do on Monday?

Serge: Hindi naman po tayo natatakot diyan. Pag-initan nila ako, sige lang. We have been here already for over 15 years. I know how to deal with those things. Hindi naman tayo umaatras diyan.

Q: May nakikita ba kayong anything good that came out from this whole thing?

Serge: The only good that I know would come out from this thing, it will call into focus the type of behavior that we will or will not tolerate in the future. And I am going to insist on that.

Q: Has it happened before, that a speech was stricken out?

Serge: Yes, maraming beses na. unparliamentary behavior, yes. I remember Bert Romulo. Talagang pwede naman. Pero usually, it's one or two sentences that are moved to be stricken out. Hindi naman nag-o-object.

Q: Hindi kaya mag-object si Sen. Enrile? Sabi niya kaya siya nag-speech to air his reply to the allegations of Sen. Miriam?

Serge: That's why we have to read it. If the speech is factual, then it's okay. But if there were personal remarks or insults, we move to strike that because that's offensive language.

Q: Hindi daw po binanggit ni JPE si Miriam sa speech niya?

Serge: But of course, that is also a mode of parliamentary behavior. Dito sa Senado, hindi mo in-a-address ang fellow senator mo, it's always Mr. President. Mr. President, the gentleman from Pasig said and I... hindi mo ina-address na Sen. Cayetano, or Sen. Sotto, hindi, you always address the Senate President, because it makes it indirect, alam mong hindi personal. And that has always been the mode of parliamentary, to address the Chair so that it will never be personal with whom you are debating. That's how you refer to them, the Gentleman of Cebu, of San Juan, of Iloilo... there's a reason for that, so that it does not descend to personalities... this is the reason for this. Formal. Respectful.

Q: For not naming Sen. Miriam in his speech, does that make his speech less unparliamentary?

Serge: That's one way of putting it. But it's still the same... alam mo pa rin naman kung sino ang nire-refer niya. It's a formal way of addressing, hindi mo binabanggit ang pangalan.

Q: Playing with a game while in session, unparliamentary ba?

Serge: I don't know because they never had games during the times of the Romans, or texting, or I-Pad... I don't think any rules against it. I don't think any parliament has made rules against it. Pero, hindi naman offensive in the sense that Sen. Enrile is not obligated to listen to the tirade against him, there's no rule that if I am attacking you, you have to listen to me. I don't think he violated any rules there.

Q: Personally, what did you find most objectionable?

Serge: I have not totally read it but you know... she called him names. She called him a serial this, a serial that. And that has nothing to do with legislation. And number two, there was no proof. She did not present any proof. She made it seem that we have to accept whatever she said with or without proof. Hindi naman po tama 'yun. She likes to boast that she was a judge, and I don't think a judge is supposed to accept as truth any allegation or allegations that are not substantiated or not supported by evidence, whether factual evidence or witnesses with personal knowledge. That's another issue we have against the speech itself...