Press Release
May 16, 2014

Headstart transcript of interview with Sen. Chiz Escudero

DAVILA: Joining us in the studio this morning, Sen. Chiz Escudero.

FGE: Good morning Karen, sa ating televiewers, magandang umaga.

DAVILA: Alright. You can directly answer Atty. Levito Baligod's statement on Bandila last night. I have the transcript of the interview and he claims, you were not in Benhur Luy's record keeping or database, but he says, there was a whistle-blower who had verbalized that, that whistleblower was with Napoles and handed you P500,000.

FGE: (Laughs) Not true Karen. I had no dealings with Napoles. Wala rin akong tinanggap muna sa kanya and I am ready to prove that whenever the accusation is raised. Ang problemang nangyayari kasi ngayon, nagsasalita si Sec. Ping. Nagsasalita si Atty. Baligod. Nagsasalita si Sec. De Lima. All quoting Napoles. Let Napoles speak and say and state her accusations against us. Hindi yung ginagamit nya at sumasakay sya sa kredebilidad ng 3 taong ito, kasama si Ms. Sandra Cam, at parang tuloy sila yung nag-aakusa. All of the questions Karen being thrown up to me is, "Senator, sabi ni Atty. Baligod. Senator, sabi ni Sec. De Lima. Senator nasa listahan ka ni Sec. Ping." Sorry, they don't have any list. It's Napoles who has a list. It is Napoles who is accusing us, and if you believe Napoles, wala na akong magagawa doon.

DAVILA: Okay. Let's first start with this, have you ever met Janet Lim-Napoles?

FGE: Yes.

DAVILA: Okay. When?

FGE: A long time ago in Congress. I don't remember when and how, but it was Jenny Lim not Janet Napoles.

DAVILA: Okay, describe that circumstance?

FGE: Actually it was only my staff who reminded me that I met her already. It's probably an official function, but I don't remember the circumstances surrounding it.

DAVILA: Okay.

FGE: Because, I had... Masama ang memory ko pagdating sa ganyan.

DAVILA: Oo, but who is Jenny Lim?

FGE: Pareho din, 'di ba Jenny Lim, Janet Lim-Napoles.

DAVILA: I see, so, what you're trying to say, she had introduced herself as Jenny Lim?

FGE: Yes. According to my staff a?

DAVILA: Oo according to your staff.

FGE: Yes.

DAVILA: Actually, there are some called her "Jenny" which would indicate that's how she introduces herself.

FGE: Yes.Yun yung pagkakasabi saking pagkakakilala.

DAVILA: Okay, now, when she had introduced herself to your staff, were you able to meet her?

FGE: No, I met her, pero walang offer, walang, "Uy, PDAF" no such thing. I just met her in one of... in an occassion somewhere. I don't even remember when I was a congressman, malamang madalas nasa Kongreso yun.

DAVILA: Okay. Now, we're talking about the 2007-2009 PDAF. Did you even have PDAF?

FGE: No I did not. The COA report said so itself, na wala akong PDAF noong 2007-2009, because GMA did not give me any release. Nagtataka nga ako Karen, ngayon ko lang nalaman noong lumabas yung COA report, mayroon pala kaming kasama sa oposisyon na mayroon at tila ako lang yung isa sa mga kakaunting walang PDAF noong panahon na yun.

DAVILA: Okay. What if they are referring to PDAF that you may have had before 2007?

FGE: Lahat yun naka-allocate. Congressman pa ako nun Karen. Lahat yun pina-publish namin kasi congressman pa lang ako noon. In a book which we released and give to our constituents, to media and to the local government units. I never allocate and I do not allocate to NGOs Karen. Even when I was a senator. Nagsimulang ma-release yung PDAF ko, 2010. Noong pangulo na si Pang. Aquino. We just allocate it into 2 releases. One, hospital assistance, medical assistance. Two, assistance to LGUs for the construction and repair of public markets. Bago pa yung issue na 'to naka-post na sa website yan.

DAVILA: So, you never did farming, anything DAR-related?

FGE: No.

DAVILA: You have never put your PDAF there?

FGE: DPWH and DOH lamang.

DAVILA: Okay.

FGE: It's in our website,para sa interesado, chizescudero.com.

DAVILA: Alright. Why would a whistleblower, verbalized that he/she was with Napoles, when Napoles try to give you P500,000?

FGE: I have no idea Karen. I haven't even seen the affidavit. Ang problema nga, si Atty. Baligod na naman yung nagsasalita sa mga nakita na mga affidavit o narinig na affidavit.

DAVILA: Because Baligod said it is not in Benhur Luy's database.

FGE: Dun din ako nagtataka Karen. I give an example, ako lang ang nasa listahan ni Napoles na wala sa listahan ni Baligod. Ako lang, bukod tangging nag-iisa. May mga nasa listahan si Benhur na wala kay Napoles.

DAVILA: ...may listahan si Benhur...

FGE: ...Nasa ledger. Kung ultimo P3,000 lansones nilalagay ni Benhur sa ledger nya, kung ultimo P72,000 na Mc Donalds nilalagay sa ledger nya, e' di siguro naman yung mas malaking amount nandoon din sa ledger nya. So, curious lang para sa akin, bakit ako nakay Napoles, nilista. Pero dun sa legder ay wala.

DAVILA: Sa ledger ni Benhur Luy you were not there.

FGE: Na nilalagay nya lahat dun, lahat ng transaksyon. Nakakapagtaka, bakit may mga pangalan sa ledger na hindi sinama ni Napoles intentionally in release.

DAVILA: Like what?

FGE: Nasa Inquirer yan.

DAVILA: Go ahead.

FGE: I think Sen. Drilon is in the Benhur's list but not in Napoles list. For example, I'm basing on the Inquirer its not coming from me, I think Sen. Marcos is in Benhur's list but not in Napoles' list. Sen. Santiago is in Benhur's list but not in Napoles' list. So, ako nakay Napoles pero wala naman kay Benhur.

DAVILA: Have you actually seen the affidavit and list that Napoles gave to Justice Sec. Leila De Lima, the actual affidavit?

FGE: Yes, no affidavit Karen.

DAVILA: What is it?

FGE: One-page list that did not even say what that list about.

DAVILA: So that's all that Sec. De Lima have, nothing more?

FGE: Yes that was she submitted, that was turnover. Ito pa masakit Karen, may printed format parang sinubmit ni Sec.Ping, walang pamagat dun, walang nakalagay na ito ang mga nakinabang. Wala, listahan lang ng pangalan. Tapos may pirma sa baba si Janet Napoles at may thumb mark. Eksakto yun nung kay Sec. Ping. Eksakto, except for may mga pangalang sinulat. Like si Cong. Angara now Sen. Angara, sulat kamay yun.

DAVILA: Saang list?

FGE: Dun sa sinumbit ni Sec. De lima na galing kay Janet Napoles. May mga limang congressman o pitong congressman na sinulat kamay na dinagdag doon sa listahan.

DAVILA: Ni De Lima?

FGE: Ni De Lima.

DAVILA: Okay.

FGE: Pero ang tanong ko Karen, ano ang ginawa nila? Ano ang ginawa namin? Listahan lamang ng mga pangalan yan, walang affidavit e, walang kwento. So yun ang pagkakaiba sa listahan ni Sec. Ping sa listahan ni Sec. De Lima na hawak. Let's clarify, lahat po galing kay Napoles. Walang personal knowledge si Sec. De Lima, walang personal knowledge si Sec. Ping kung ano yung nilalaman at ano ang nangyari doon sa listahang yun. Sila lang ang may hawak, sila lang ang pinagbigayan.

DAVILA: Alright, now what's interesting with this whole circus today is Atty. Baligod himself said on Bandila last night the reason that tatlong senador lang daw ang kinasuhan, because they were asked to concentrate on the 2007 and 2009 PDAF. Other senators that may have been mentioned, they have no proof it is PDAF related. I'm just gonna move on to the P500,000 even if you denied it categorically. Ang pananaw ng ilan posibleng nililigawan ka ni Napoles noon na P500,000 could have been a gift.

FGE: Posible lahat yan, Karen. Pero hindi totoo and I categorically deny it. Para sa akin, nasan yung affidavit? Ano ba? Saan daw ba binigay? Para makasagot naman ng diretso. Ang hirap naman magpaliwanag ng ganito e.

DAVILA: Walang location, wala, nothing...

FGE: Di ba nakita lang ni Baligod dun sa listahan daw, nabanggit lang daw sa kanya, nasa statement ito nang makasagot naman kami ng diretso at malay mo nasa Amerika ako noon, malay mo nasa kung saan ako nun, ang hirap sumagot dahil itong mga nagsasalita ay hindi naman yun (inaudible). For example Karen, I heard that this little also offered where there is a rumor that there is also offered at the Ombudsman. The Ombudsman, if the story is correct, properly and correctly turned-it-down and said allegedly, you reduce that into affidavit and have your lawyers submitted to me. Ganun dapat, hindi yung inalok ni Mr. Napoles si Sec. Ping, tinanggap niya at nilako ni Sec. Ping. Binigyan ni Janet Napoles si Sec. Leila De Lima, pinag-aaralan ni Sec. De Lima, inuutay-utay ni Sec. De Lima yung release. In fact si Sec. De Lima acting lawyer for Napoles submitting to the Senate, instead of the lawyer of Napoles submitting the list to the Senate. As if tuloy ni Sec. De Lima validating everything the list but she cannot do that Karen. Once a witness execute an affidavit, true or false, may halong totoo may halong kasinungalingan, yan na yung affidavit niya. Its not for the DOJ to validate and verify it. Yung paki-usap niyang please don't release it, we're validating it. Hiniling ko na ilabas yung listahan, sinama ako ni Napoles dun. Its not for DOJ to validate it and to verify it. What if they found out its not true? Can they actually go back to Napoles and tell her, "hoy baguhin mo affidavit mo, tanggalin mo si Escudero." They cannot do that. If Napoles included lies in her affidavit, may halong totoo, may halong kasinungalin, let it stand true or false base on its content.

DAVILA: And then you can sue her..

FGE: Not really sue her but let the accused use that to make her credibility. But its not for the DOJ to give this mere affidavit to the Senate and to act as if she is the lawyer of Napoles. Ang magandang tanong siguro kay Sec. De Lima, may deal na ba sila? Why is she acting a lawyer and going to the vetting the affidavit, drafting the affidavit, typing the affidavit. It should be the lawyers' draft, WPP na ba siya, nasa state witness na ba siya? What is the exact role of the prosecutor if this holding in the relation to Napoles.

DAVILA: Okay now, if Sec. De Lima to blame for all of these? Certain sectors from the beginning are saying she shouldn't even have entertained Napoles for five hours...

FGE: Sumakay siya Karen eh. Actually ang tingin ko dito, ang daming gustong pasakayin ni Napoles. Bakit sinubukan pasakayin ni Napoles, sumakay yung ilan. Yung iba hindi. Again, if the rumors are true like inalok ito una sa Ombudsman, well hindi siya sumakay, hindi siya nagpagamit. Yung iba sumakay at nagpagamit. Exactly, nagkakagulo tayong lahat dahil lamang sa salita ni Napoles. But what is turning out, it's not Napoles who is talking, she has been silent. Nobody is after anything. It's Sec. Ping who was talking about Napoles' list as if its true. It's Sec. De Lima who was talking about the list, as if its true. It's Ms. Sandra Cam talking about the list, all these three people are credible. All these people are believable, they have integrity. Ang lumalabas tuloy sila nag-aakusa at hindi si Napoles. Now the question is, are these three people have personal knowledge about what's in the list? Wala, inabot lang sa kanila. In the case of Sec. Ping, inabot sa kanya. In the case of Sandra Cam, inabot sa kanya. In the case of Sec. Leila De Lima, kinuwento lang sa kanya. So ang ganda ng pagkakalatag. At ang latag pa Karen, ibigay ko sa tao at ang utos sa tatlo huwag niyo ilalabas. So lalong nangigil ang tao. Lalong, "hoy ano ba ang andiyan", bakit wala, bakit ayaw niyo i-release?" So nangyayari tuloy they are prey on human nature. Kung ano yung bawal, yun ang hinahanap. Kung ano yung hindi pwede, yun ang gustong makita.

DAVILA: So, you believe clearly that Janet Napoles had run this, I mean now that she is really running the show frankly?

FGE: Well, hindi ako magugulat Karen kung pinagtatawan lahat tayo pati ako ngayon. Pati na akonh humarap at nagpaliwanag sa iyo bigla (laughs). At nakalagay dun sa sinubmit niya kay Sec. Ping ay I'm a high school, it's not signed... I am a high school...

DAVILA: You've seen these two... Everything you are telling us now is you've seen De Lima's and Ping's, it's in the Senate...

FGE: Secretary Ping's, which he submitted, is a 30-page affidavit form not signed by Napoles, a 5-page or 6-page document narrating the entry of PDAF, and a one-page document with my name on it. I'm not in the first two but I have my name on the last one. But in the affidavit, I'm not there.

DAVILA: All not signed?

FGE: All not signed. At nakalagay sa last part nun, Karen, "high school graduate lang ako at hindi ko alam na masama pala magbigay ng komisyon.Ngayon ko lang nalaman na masama pala at bawal pala yun."

DAVILA: Okay, now I wanna ask you, do you see politics behind these? Well some sectors, critics have said that she was in the Ospital ng Makati when she made this list, affidavit. And I'm sorry to have a conspiracy theory but you know you're hearing, latest 'to, what do you expect in Ospital ng Makati, that's opposition territory, do you think there was a hand?

FGE: I'll be fair, I have no personal knowledge. I heard the stories too but I have no personal knowledge. In fact, I was interviewed yesterday Karen, "sir can you react, sabi daw ni Napoles kaya daw niyang pabagsakin tong gobyernong 'to at magpatawag ng snap election." Sabi ko ang yabang naman niya kung totoong sinabi niya yan. For example Karen, what if Janet wrote in that list your name? What if she wrote the president's name? Magkakagulo ba tayo? Babagsak ba yuing gobyerno ni Pangulong Aquino bigla? Ikaw biglang tatanggalin ka ba dito sa ABS-CBN dahil nilagay niya ang pangalan mo roon? I don't think that will be the case. Sa Twitter nga minsan natatawa ako may mga nagsasabi, "senator you should prove your innocence." Ha? Not by the mere word of Janet, no. She hasn't proved her allegations. Parang mag nagsabi sa'yo. Parang mag nagsabi sa'yo Karen, pinatay mo si X. Papatunayan mo bang hindi mo siya pinatay o kailangang patunayan na pinatay mo siya? It goes that way.

DAVILA: Now, what's the Senate planning to do? Clearly, you know, Senator TG Guingonna, head of the Blue Ribbon Committee talking about leaking the list in the public.

FGE: Dapat lang Karen, ilabas na nga dapat lahat yan eh. Habang tinatago, lalong tumatakam ang tao. Lalo tulong natatakam ang tao sa listahan. Kung hindi pinatagal ito nila Seretary Ping at Secretary De Lima o abogado ni Napoles ang naglabas nito, ni hindi natin pagkakaguluhan ito eh. Napakaganda nga nung pagkakalatag. Now, what should the Senate do? The Senate should continue with its hearing. The Senate should call Napoles, Luy, Secretary Ping, Secretary De Lima, and Miss Sandra Cam. Testify the list that you have, clarify before the people if you have personal knowledge over it or not so therefore you're just messenger, courier, agent or spokesperson folly of Napoles but you don't have personal knowledge over it. And pagbangga-banggain natin yung testimonya nila. May nagsasabi Karen, wala na raw kredibilidad ang Senadong tingnan at imbestigahan ito, tigilan na raw namin ito. Then Napoles would have succeeded. By merely writing all our names there we will stop. Lahat kami mabababalahibuhan, lahat kami mapuputulan ng pakpak. Lahat kami matatakot at ayaw na magsalita dahil lahat kami ay nilagay ni Napoles sa listahan niya. Of course not, that would pave the way for her winning this whole thing.

DAVILA: But what you should think is the three senators, that is actually been recommended already for plunder case? You have Enrile, Estrada and Revilla with so many names of other senators in the leaked list. Baligod said right now that there are six may just be coming out. What's appearing now is you have these three senators who are saying why you are pointing just at us eh pare-pareho naman pala tayong... you understand?

FGE: I agree with that Karen. They have the right to complaint pero hindi tama sigurong manggaling sa kanila, dapat mangagaling sa iba, hindi doon sa akusado. parang lima ang inakusahan ng murder isa lang ang nahuli, yung apat nakatakbo. Ano ang sasabihin nya? "Hindi nyo ko pwedeng ikulong hangga't hindi nyo nahuhuli yung apat. Hindi nyo ko pwedeng kasuhan hangga't hindi nyo nakakasuhan yung apat." That's not how it's done. Kung sino yung nahuli, edi yun yung kakasuhan, and based on the charge, as they are arrested or as the evidence permits. But you have to understand too, listahan lang ni Napoles lahat ito. With those that the DOJ have filed cases against, I'm not zeroing only on the 3, with the other officials. Sila Ruby Tuason, all the rest. Hindi lang testimonya ng isang whistleblower ito. Testimonya ito ng 15 whistleblower. Hindi lang to testimonial evidence. May documentary evidence ka pa from COA. Mayroon kang mga sulat na sinabi ng COA na vinerify nilang pirma nila yun.

DAVILA: That's what people are forgetting, that COA actually sent auditors to certain places to check if the PDAF was spent properly. That's what people are forgetting in this whole situation. I keep saying na... then, it was not based on list.

FGE: Kaya nga yung nagsasabi Karen, "prove my innocence," it's the COA report that will prove it, not a single peso was allocated to Janet Napoles' NGOs.

DAVILA: Alright. Now, Justice Sec. Leila De Lima said, there is a possibility that Napoles might be a witness.

FGE: Yun yung pinakakalokohang pwedeng mangyari sa lahat ng 'to Karen. She is not the least guilty, number one, clearly. Number two, her testimony is not corroborated on all force by any of the whistleblowers that have come out thus far, unless we will impugn the credibility of the whistleblowers that first came out. Halimbawa Karen, nasa listahan ka ni Benhur. Wala ka sa listahan ni Napoles. Will he now stand up and say, "I believe Napoles more than I believe Baligod...Benhur" and you will start to impune the credibility of Benhur, simply because you're in that list. Ano'ng gagawin ko? "I don't believe the list of Napoles and I will start to impune her credibility and stand by Benhur." This is exactly what Napoles probably wants us to do and wants to happen, and that's exactly what's happening and we're falling into this particular trap.

DAVILA: Okay. Alright. We're gonna take a quick break. We'll be back with Sen. Chiz Escudero. stay tuned.

[COMMERCIAL BREAK]

DAVILA: Alright we are back with Chairman on Senate Committee on Finance Senator Francis "Chiz" Escudero. Moving forward, where are we leaning to this?

FGE: After the hearing, I think the DOJ should be due to its work and start filing cases kung san ang ebidensiya. Karen, October ko pa narinig kay Sec. De Lima na may second batch. Asan na yung second batch? Kung may basehan man si Senator Jinggoy, yun siguro ang reklamo nila. It's been six-seven months, since the cases are were filed against them, asan na yung second batch, third batch, fourth batch ng DOJ. Para naman masagot na rin yung mga kakasuhan nila.

DAVILA: But with that we are awaiting for the is a motion for reconsideration with the accused and then the Ombudsman is supposed to reply.

FGE: Hindi.

DAVILA: Where are we with that?

FGE: The Ombudsman already recommended the filing of cases of the respondents kasama yung tatlong senador. They filed their motion for reconsideration kasama na yung result sa Office of the Ombudsman. As soon as it is resolved, next day, tomorrow, next week, kung sinabi nila acquitted, walang kasong isasampa. Pag sinabi nilang may basis, they will file the case and warrants of arrest will be issued.

DAVILA: Forward looking, what happens if Vice-President wins for President in 2016? And in Napoles list entertained, I will just look back, in the Napoles list, Atty. Gigi Reyes was not mentioned not all. And to think that Ruby Tuason had specific testimony with Atty. Gigi Reyes and Ben Hur Luy have mentioned Atty. Gigi Reyes and yet in Napoles list, no mention of everything on Atty.Gigi Reyes. But then Senate President Juan Ponce Enrile has been accused, he has been charged and none of the witnesses have ever said they have met with Enrile personally. What would be the effect in 2016 with all this senators including yourself?

FGE: To be honest, lahat yan umiikot yan. ung ano ang ginamit mo ngayon, babalik din sa iyo at gagamitin laban sa iyo. And that is the standard of the Ombudsman is using, for example in the opposition now. I won't blame and I won't be surprised if Vice President Binay win. If they will use the same standard in the source of the current administration. And also in the affidavit of Napoles jives because that is based with Sec. Ping. Jives with Senator Jinggoy is saying. The brains of Malampaya is Ruby Tuason that is according to the unsigned affidavit of Janet Napoles. That the brains of Malampaya is Ruby Tuason whether you believe that or not. Pero pareho yun sa sinasabi ni Sen. Estrada.

DAVILA: Okay, alright. Now we are awaiting the Sandiganbayan's, I mean it would be...

FGE: ...Ombudsman.

DAVILA: What would happen if the Ombudsman makes a recommendation? Take us through that.

FGE: If the Ombudsman recommends the filing of cases and they will actually file a case before the Sandiganbayan, the Sandiganbayan would issue warrant of arrest against the accused and the warrant of arrest will be served. Now if Congress is, even if Congress is in session as we are now, the warrant of arrest can be serve. Because ang exemption lang o immunity from arrest ng mambababatas ay para sa krimen na ang penalty ay below 6 years. Ito'y Plunder so they can be arrested even if Congress is in session. Now the question was raised. So habang nagsesesyon kayo papasok ang pulis? Hindi naman. Perhaps the session will be suspended if we are in session or perhaps the warrant can be served outside of the Senate or a day after it will be filed. Now ang tanong, suspendido ba sila? Oo, they will be suspended after the Plunder Law. Susweldo ba sila? Hindi dahil suspended sila. Yung staff ba nila susweldo? Oo dapat. Ang problema lang sinong pipirma ng budget nila. Because under COA rules, its the senator that signs the budget for the office, including the salary of the employees. Although technically dapat sumusweldo sila, bakit di sila makasweldo dahil walang senador na pipirma dahil suspendido yung senador.

DAVILA: Okay. This list and the Napolist being entertained, do you think it's affecting the Ombudsman action?

FGE: I don't think so and they should not delay the Ombudsman's resolution. Because according to the DOJ, they have touted about it that they have enough to convict. If they do indeed have enough to convict that time, they don't need Napoles' affidavit or list to strengthen their case against those certain charge so far...

DAVILA: Alright, okay. Last question, you have touted as shoo-in for the vice presidency in 2016. Do you believe this will affect you?

FGE: Lahat naman yan Karen palaging nakakaapekto. Last time interview ko on radio I said, buo ang tiwala at pananampalataya ko na kayang timbangin ng taong bayan kung ano ang totoo at hindi. And being charged and accused of various things is part of our job in the government. Kung hindi namin kayang tiisin yun, e' di umalis na kami sa gobyerno. I've been called many things Karen based on the list of them and I think you're aware of the list. The list is getting longer as we go along, as we get closer to 2016. I think the list of accusations and crimes that I allegedly committed is getting longer and longer.

DAVILA: Okay. Alright. Your message to Sec. De Lima?

FGE: I think the affidavit should be submitted as is. And I don't think she should let Napoles use her. Tama na po, sana wag kayo magpagamit. At sana kung ano man ang affidavit nya, hayaan nyo na ho yung mga abogado nya ang gumawa. It's not a DOJ's job to verify it. Whatever it is you have right now, let her lawyer submit it to the Senate instead of allowing yourself to be as Napoles have to speak for Napoles. Very much like what I said to Sec. Ping, I hope they will not allow themselves to be used and for Napoles to ride on to their credibility in so far as what Napoles is alleging and accessing members of Senate and Government.

DAVILA: Okay. Thank you very much Sen. Chiz Escudero.

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