GRACE POE AMBUSH INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT
February 23, 2015, 5:30 p.m.

Q: Assessment sa buong hearing?

Poe: Para sa akin napakahalaga na nagkaroon ng executive session kasi mas nakikita namin ang kabuuan nitong imbestigasyon. Noong umpisa may PNP, ngayon naman AFP, kung noon medyo nakuntento na tayo at least nakikita natin ngayon na mas nababalanse ng kaunti. Dahil may mga diskusyon na hindi pwedeng isapubliko katulad ng sinasabi nila na kapag nagkakaroon na ng bangayan ang AFP at PNP hindi na magandang tignan iyon at nakakababa ng moral kaya ang gagawin namin bago kami mag-umpisa ulit ng public hearing bukas, 9 a.m. may executive session na naman. This time, PNP and AFP so that they can reconcile their stories or if they cannot - then we can see where the disparities are. At least when they get together, then they can either back up the statement of the other or contradict but its better because its very difficult, mahirap kasi kung magsasagupaan sila sa open hearing. Mahirap iyon sapagkat yung mga ginagamit nilang stratehiya sa operasyon ay hindi maiiwasang masiwalat. Bakit hindi nakapasok ang ating mga tangke? Nasabi na, so ngayon makikita yan na kahinaan ng ating sandatahang lakas. Hindi naman natin pwedeng isugal iyan sa isang bukas na pagdinig. Basta palagi ko namang sinasabi sa inyo hindi naman para itago ang pagkakamali, iniingatan lang natin na yung ating siguridad ay hindi malagay sa alanganin.

Q: Assertions of lack of coordination nabolster ba ng pakikipagusap niyo sa military?

Poe: Hindi ko pwedeng sabihin iyon, ang masasabi ko lang, malinaw naman sa bukas na pagdinig na ganoon ang naging sitwasyon. Basta ang malinaw talaga sa ating public hearing, marami talagang pagkakamali sa coordination, kakulangan sa communication na maari sana ay naiwasan.

Q: Naniniwala ba kayo na walang sense of urgency sa taas simula noong umaga pa?

Poe: Hindi ko matantya kasi para sa akin kung sino ang kausap nila sa baba, alam ba? Nasasabi ba ni Gen. Napenas kung ilan na ang nasugatan o namamatay? Importante kasi para sila ay magkaroon ng ideya na nabibigay ang tamang impormasyon. Naniniwala ako, sa mga nakikita pa lang natin ngayon, patuloy pa rin ang ating pag-aaral, na talagang hindi nila nasabihan ang pangulo na walang tamang coordination sa military. Malinaw iyon sa mga napagusapan sa public hearing. Kaya nga gusto pa natin malaman kung ano pa ang kakulangan sa impormasyon kasi unang una, tinatanong natin, ano ba ang ginagamit ninyo para magcommunicate sa mga pulis ninyo? Cellphone diba? Parang hanggang ngayon hindi pa rin nalilinawan, may radio ba kayo? Sila mismo parang hindi rin nila nalalaman kaagad-agad kung ano ang kailangang gawin so ito ang nakikita natin. Failure of communications, failure of chain of command, basta sa ngayon mayroon pang isang executive session at patuloy pa rin ang pagdinig natin bukas.

Q: Nakabuti ba kay PNoy pagdating sa usapin ng responsibility ang paglalabas ng text messages?

Poe: At least ang malinaw kasi, maraming katanungan sa pangulo, bakit hindi mo in-order ang military na mag-support? Mukha namang sa umpisa pa lang ay nakita na natin dito sa mga text messages at ganoon din sa sinasabi ng iba na talagang ang akala ng ating pangulo ay naliwanagan na nila na dapat kasama ang military so ngayon isa iyan sa ating tutuntunin sa ating committee report, sino ang hindi nakinig? Bakit hindi nakinig dahil kung iyon ang pagkaka-alam ng ating Pangulo, bakit hindi iyon ang nangyari?

Q: Are you referring sa coordination sa military?

Poe: Tama kasi sinasabi diba umpisa pa lang sinabi na ni Guerrero na the military is made available or artillery support is made available, noong tinanong natin si Gen. Pangilinan, sabi niya, made available doesn't necessarily mean deployed in that situation so nagkaroon ng technical play of words but then again we also understand the military na hindi din ganoon kabilis kumilos at dalhin lahat ng tropa mo kung sinabi lamang sa iyo nung umaga. Nagumpisa sila ng salakay ng alas-dos ng madaling araw bakit hindi pa lang doon? Sabihin na nating time on target, bakit hindi pa lang two o'clock ng umaga tinawagan na nila ang military para pagdating ng umaga ay nandoon na sila at ready na silang pumunta pero muli, nabanggit na kasi sa hearing kahit na may tangke ka pa diyan, alam naman natin yung landscape at lahat iyon.

Q: Naniniwala kayo kay Sen. Chiz na inaccurate and false yung information na binigay ni Gen. Purisima kay President Aquino?

Poe: Sa text messages napaka-inaccurate talaga. Sinasabi kasi na nandoon na at mayroon nang military support. Yun ang pagkaka-alam ng Presidente tapos nakalagay din doon sinasabi ng Presidente, teka muna, ang kalaban 20 lang e diba marami kayo? Hindi na alam ng Presidente na sa pagtawid pa lang ng ilog ang dami nang nalagas na SAF, hindi na nakasama. Parang out of 38 ay 13 lang ang nakatawid tapos yung backup force na 45th SAF na dapat magbabantay sa 84th Seaborne ay late dumating. Three or two hours late so doon pa lang hindi na alam ng Pangulo na nagkakagulo na sila sa baba so papaano siya makakapagbigay ng direct order, hindi ba yung Presidente rin, hindi ko naman sinasabi para direktahan ito, parang may sinasabi din ang military na hindi sila nagbibigay ng operational, strategic lang if ever kaya lilinawin natin -hindi pa natin alam dahil marami pang pwedeng mabungkal dito sa ating pag-uusap bukas.

Q: If we look back, na-establish din sa past hearings na there were 10 operation plans against Marwan. So they have assessed kung gaano kalaki, gaano kahirap ang terrain, gaano ang BIFF, saan sila nakalagay, ang MILF--so can we just say na late nasabihan ang pangulo at TOT kami kaya hindi kami naka-react agad when these military officials and these PNP officials already testified na alam nila iyon during the previous hearings?

Poe: That's true. Marami nang operation against Marwan. But remember, he's a moving target. His location would change from time to time. So you made a complete study on a particular scenario, if he's already moved to another area, iba na naman ang topography, iba na naman ang landscape, iba na naman ang ingress at egress 'nun. Kaya nga ang sinasabi ko, madaling magturuan na ngayon. At, siguradong maraming nagkasala dito. Maraming nagkaroon ng pagkakamali. Pero tama ka. Nakikita ang kahinaan ng ating pwersa. Ang tagal-tagal nang pinag-aralan, ilang beses nang pumalpak. Kaya wag na nating laliman pa, na magbabangayan sila sa harap ng publiko. Kaya kahit papaano, gusto naming magkaroon ng transparency, pero pinag-iingatan din natin ang morale at seguridad ng ating sandatahang lakas.

Q: But on the part of the President, at this point, is the committee clear that he has no liability or no responsibility for what happened?

Poe: When it comes to ordering the military's participation, it seems that the President was not given a clear scenario of what was going on in the ground. So it would have been difficult for him to order a military operation or strike. Because in his mind, they were already there, and they were already deployed. So 'dun pa lang, malinaw na iyon. 'Dun pa lang, makikita mo kung mali ang report sa Presidente, sino ang nagbigay ng maling report? Ayoko munang sabihin. Malinaw na iyon, kung babalikan ninyo ang transcript--was it a deliberate misleading of the President, or not? Pero, siguro, ang ugat nito ay naging tama ba ang koordinasyon kay Napeñas at kay Purisima. Maybe when we look back, they're not the best persons to coordinate with this type of operation.

Q: Re: Purisima's involvement despite his suspension.

Poe: Sa committee report, ilalagay natin iyan. Pero bumabalik na naman siya sa "I was just providing the transition because I already knew the operation." "I wasn't really commanding, I was just advising." Play of words, usurpation of power kasi matutunton ba talaga natin na siya ang nagsasabi na "kayo ang pumunta diyan. Kayo ang gumawa niyan." So we have to look back to the transcripts. Right now, we have a couple of feet of transcripts that we have to go through. And as much as I would like to come up with a quick preliminary report, I feel that we might jeopardize the comprehensiveness of the report if we come up too hastily with it.

Q: RE: Sen. Marcos' question on who allowed Purisima to take that kind of authority even when he was suspended?

Poe: He just took it upon himself. I mean, supposedly the President was coordinating directly with Gen. Napeñas already at that point, so he was apparently just providing the transition and also institutional knowledge on the operation, but then again, was there too much power or autonomy given to Gen. Purisima? I think that if we piece all of these things together, it will come up to that. But in the meantime, we have to be a little prudent and cite particular instances that can prove that or can point to that.

Q: Ma'am, re Purisima appealing to his suspension, but on the sms correspondence with the President, parang siya ang nakakaalam.

Poe: Kasi kung gagawa ka ng diagram, parang tore iyan eh. Sino ang palaging tinetext ni Napenas o ng military o nagtetext sa military ng backup? Hindi ba, si Purisima din? So kung gagawa kami ng triangle, siya ang nagco-connect ng lahat ng mga participants dito sa operasyon na ito. So, para sa isang taong nagproprovide lamang ng transition, it seems that he really has a direct hand on how things turned out on the 25th and before.

Q: Pero ma'am, yung sa replies sa kaniya ng Presidente, could that indicate that he has the President's blessing?

Poe: Yung pagre-reply sa kanya ng Presidente, obviously it acknowledges the fact that Purisima had knowledge of the operation. The President perhaps was relying on him to relay the messages to Napenas, on the other hand, there's also a gap in the text messages of the President with Purisima. That is why we are wondering if the military or Sec. Mar or Gen. Espina could've taken over the information given to the President during that time in Zamboanga. So that is what we're still trying to clarify.

Q: Ma'am sabi nina Sec. Roxas at Sec. Gazmin sa last hearing, they really didn't answer who informed the President and then today lumabas na they were in touch with him at 10:30--how did the committee take that? They were under oath.

Poe: Maybe sometimes, when they're already swamped with so much information or overtaken by events...We would like to give them the benefit of the doubt. But, there are inconsistencies with some of the statements of our resource persons, that's why we just have to reaffirm and ask them again tomorrow. I think there was also a statement by Sec. Mar earlier...Again, we have to go back. Ang dami na kasing nasabi. Pero, initially, instinctively, you should be able to know. It's an occurrence when something big happens. You know where you are at that moment. And so, I'd like to know where you were at that moment, what did you do succeeding to that time, and a lot of the questions also -if they relayed to the President the exact gravity of the situation, perhaps the President would've set up a war room in Zamboanga to be able to have an on-time assessment of the situation. So was there one? Was there none? And if none, why not? Again, we will ask that tomorrow.

Q: How many more hearings, ma'am?

Poe: Hopefully, by tomorrow, it would be done.

Q: Who would be invited tomorrow?

Poe: Mahirap magsalita ng tapos, pero alam mo, ganito iyan. Hindi dahil sa gusto kong ma-whitewash kaya tatapusin ang hearing. Unang-una, bilangin ninyo ang oras na binigay namin. Hindi matutumbasan ng oras na binigay namin ang buhay na mga nawala. Kailangan iyon. Lagpas 30 hours na. Plus, mga executive session. Ang problema kasi, may mga operasyon pa sila. May mga tinutugis pa sila. Sa bawat araw na nandito sila, hindi rin nila nagagawa ang trabaho nila. Napaka-self-centered din naman ng Senado to drag this on and not go with the extensive information we already have. So, hopefully we can wrap it up by tomorrow and if we have any updates while we are doing the preliminary committee report, we will update you. Because it doesn't mean that just because we don't have a public hearing, we're not going to continue inquiring through different channels if we have to.