Press Release
July 26, 2017

Transcript of Sen. Bam's questions during hearing on Marcos' reinstatement
(Part 1)

Sen. Bam: Maraming salamat Mr. Chairman, magandang umaga sa mga panauhin po natin, General dela Rosa, good morning. USEC Orceo, Good Morning, nasaan po si Secretary Aguirre?

Sen. Lacson: For the record, Senator Bam, he informed me that he cannot make it to today's meeting because he has a prior committment somewhere in Central Luzon.

Sen. Bam: Alright. Sayang naman, hindi kami nagkita ngayon. I'm sure you'll be able to answer all the questions well, and kayo rin po yung pumirma at the end of the petition.

Okay, so you signed the resolution looking at the downgrade of the charges from murder to homicide. Is that correct?

Usec. Orceo: Yes, your honor.

Sen. Bam: Okay. So pupunta tayo doon, noh. Para ho kasi sa akin, dalawa yung issue - one is the downgrading. Kung paano po nangyari yung downgrading. And, later on, I'm sure si USEC Orceo will be able to answer all of those questions. And mamaya, yung reinstatement. I'll ask PNP Chief kung ano po talaga yung nangyari dito at ano po talaga yung status nito.

Okay. Sa kaliwa po namin is the NAPROS, and they are the original DOJ panel na nagsagawa ng original recommendation from the DOJ, is that correct? Who will be speaking for NAPROS?

Uhm, Prosecutor Alejo? Kayo po.

Prosecutor Alejo: Yes sir.

Sen. Bam: Okay, so kayo po yung gumawa nung original na report mula sa DOJ na nabaliktad, or naiba, after the resolution provided by USEC Orceo. Is that correct?

Prosecutor Alejo: Yes, sir.

Sen. Bam: Alright. Sa aking kanan naman, yung NBI, of course Director Gierran is here. Director, magandang umaga. Kayo rin po, ano? Naglabas rin kayo ng report tungkol sa pangyayaring pagpatay kay Mayor Espinosa, tama po?

Dir. Gierran: Uh, yes sir, it's a regular police investigation.

Sen Bam: That's right. Uh, and during the hearings, nakapag-usap po tayo kung ano po yung initial findings ninyo. At this point, meron na po kayong - siguro, masasabi ho natin, mas advanced na yung inyong investigation pagdating niyo po sa kasong ito. Because the last time tayong nag-usap, it was during this time also, and I think you had said these are just your initial findings. So by today, you will be able to tell us ano na talaga yung findings na talaga ng NBI dun sa kaso pong ito, is that correct?

Dir. Gierran: We have already concluded our investigation.

Sen. Bam: And you will be able to share with us the results of your investigation?

Dir. Gierran: Yes, your honor.

Sen. Bam: Thank you. And of course, quite important to the Senate is the Senate Committee Report of Senator Lacson, na nandito po. I'll be quoting some passages from here later, this was signed by the members of the committees, if I'm not mistaken, and adapted. Wala naman pong tumutol, noh? No objection, alright.

So, simulan ho natin sa NAPROS, noh. Prosecutor Alejo, in summary, although I do have your original DOJ Panel Report here, anong date ho ito? This is?

Prosecutor Alejo: It's dated March 2 po.

Sen. Bam: This is March 2. Just very quickly, ano po yung naging recommedations po ninyo dito? Sa inyong panel? And I see that almost all of you are here, ano? The ones who signed are Alejo, Torevillas, Dedumo, Cabel, Acayan, is Ranses also here? Yes. Okay, so all of you are here. Kayo pong lahat na pumirma po dito, nandito po kayong lahat, noh. Uh, itong report ninyo, binabago niyo po ba ang report ninyo, or do you stand by this report dated March 2, 2017?

Prosecutor Alejo: We stand by our report, sir.

Sen. Bam: Ok, ano po yung nakalagay sa inyong report?

Prosecutor Alejo: May I be allowed to read the positive portion, sir?

Sen. Bam: Yes.

*Prosecutor Alejo proceeds to read the report*

Sen. Bam: Okay, thank you Prosecutor Alejo. So, ito pong report po niyo, this is upon the investigation of this panel, and it took you how many months to determine this report?

Prosecutor Alejo: Your Honor, we were assigned this case in December, and then we finished this in March, Your Honor.

Sen. Bam: Tatlong buwan, basically, noh? Pangkaraniwang oras po ba yun? Is that short? Is that long? Is that the usual amount of time that you come up with the report?

Prosecutor Alejo: It was just interrupted by the Holidays, Your Honor. The Christmas Holidays.

Sen. Bam: So pangkaraniwan po ito sa inyo. Meron po bang nanghimasok dito po sa paggawa ng inyong report, from the DOJ, from the PNP, from the Senate, from anybody? Did anybody try to influence you dito po sa inyong report?

Prosecutor Alejo: None, Your Honor.

Sen. Bam: None, and you're under oath, noh? So wala hong tumawag na higher ups, or kung sino man, trying to tell you dapat ganito, dapat ganyan yung report? Wala po?

Prosecutor Alejo: Wala po.

Sen. Bam:Okay, and when the DOJ, or another part of the DOJ, submitted the Resolution recommending na ibaba po yung charge mula murder to homicide, ano po yung- sinabihan ho kayo ahead of time, that your report, in effect, will be overturned? Or ibabale-wala yung report ninyo?

Prosecutor Alejo: No, sir. Actually, sir, because when we filed the information in Leyte, there was another panel constituted of prosecutors in Leyte, because it would be very expensive for us, for the whole panel, to travel to Leyte and prosecute the case. So there was another panel constituted already as early as March 13, 2017, your honor. So in effect, when the new panel was created and designated to handle the case, we already have no authority over the case.

Sen. Bam: Okay, so pinasa niyo na sa kanila, in short?

Prosecutor Alejo: Yes, your honor.

Sen. Bam: And, were these prosecutors told that another part of the DOJ would be overturning your report? Or hindi niyo na alam?

Prosecutor Alejo: We were not informed, Your Honor.

Sen. Bam: Alright. But in short, kayo pong gumawa ng report na ito, it originated from you, it was submitted to the Secretary, is that correct?

Prosecutor Alejo: No, Your Honor, it was just signed by the Prosecutor General, but he was on leave at that time, so it was signed by the DOIC, who was in charge.

Sen. Bam: I just want to be clear, noh- a report like this, kanino po ito pupunta, pupunta po ba ito sa korte, or sa DOJ rin?

Prosecutor Alejo: Prosecutor General po muna, and then pag probable cause po, filing the information, sa korte na po.

Sen. Bam: Alright. So, hindi ito usually dumadaan sa ibang mga sangay ng DOJ? That's the usual process po?

Prosecutor Alejo: Opo.

Sen. Bam: Alright, so kailan niyo ho nalaman na nagkaroon ng pagbabago doon sa inyong recommendation? Or sa TV niyo nalang po nalaman?

Prosecutor Alejo: Actually po, sa media nalang po.

Sen. Bam: Sa media nalang. And what was your reaction, Prosecutor Alejo?

Prosecutor Alejo: Uhm, well, as usual po, katulad po ng ibang cases din ng DOJ, I felt it's just the prerogative of the SOJ.

Sen. Bam: So it's his prerogative. Nangyayari po ba yan usually- how many years have you been in the NAPROS po? In the Prosecutor's Office?

Prosecutor Alejo: 23 years po.

Sen. Bam: 23 years. This has happened many times, or is this very unusual?

Prosecutor Alejo: This has happened many times naman po.

Sen. Bam: Alright, so nangyayari naman po ito, to be fair. Na yung report ng isang panel, nababaliktad ng Secretary of Justice.

Prosecutor Alejo: Yes po.

Sen. Bam: Alright. So, you found out in the media, but you're still here, standing by your report. Nabasa niyo naman po yung report na ginawa ni USEC Orceo? And you do not agree with him?

Prosecutor Alejo: Sir, he has his own appreciation of the facts of the case, and we have our own appreciation of the facts of the case.

Sen. Bam: Hindi naman ho nagbago ang isip niyo from his report, baka naman mas maganda yung report niya?

Prosecutor Alejo: Hindi po, sir.

Sen. Bam: Hindi.

-000-

Sen. Bam: Alright, before we go to USEC Orceo, gusto ko lang pong linawin sa NBI noh, Director Gierran, what were your final findings on this investigation? Closed na po ito, diba? Closed na po siya. What were your findings po?

Dir. Gierran: We have already communicated or transmitted our findings to the prosecutor's office. We have added recommendations for robbery and planting of evidence against specific persons or people, we have charged in our recommendation.

Sen. Bam: Alright, thank you director. So wala kayong binago, even after this resolution from the DOJ, you're not convinced na dapat po ibaba to homicide ang charges kay Marcos at dun sa iba?

Dir. Gierran: After we received the findings of USEC Orceo about the downgrading of the case that we have earlier filed with the prosecutors' office, with his DOJ panel, we have transmitted, or we have written also our motion for reconsideration based on the findings...

Sen. Bam: So nagsagot ho kayo ng motion for reconsideration sa DOJ?

Dir. Gierran: That the case, your honor. After we lose on that case, we have also to file a reconsideration based on what we have earlier found.

Sen. Bam: Alright, so that's with the DOJ, noh?

Dir. Gierran: Yes, your honor.

Sen. Bam: Alright. So pagkatapos naglabas si USEC Orceo ng kaniyang resolution calling for a downgrade, nagsubmit rin ho kayo ng motion for reconsideration sa kanila?

Dir. Gierran: Opo. Simple lang- ang ibig sabihin niyan, na gusto na naming linawin na hindi kami pabor doon sa-

Sen. Bam: Hindi kayo sumasang-ayon?

Dir. Gierran: ...kaya, nagsubmit kami ng aming reconsideration na baguhin.

Sen. Bam: Salamat po, Director. Uhm, let me just quote the conclusion - page 25 - of our Committee Report, of course, Senator Lacson knows this by heart- nakalagay po dito,

"Based on thorough consideration of established procedures, jurisprudence, ordinary human experience, as well as testimonies offered, and documents submitted during the joint public hearings conducted by the Committee on Public Order and Dangerous Drugs, and the Committee on Justice and Human Rights, the joint committee has reached the conclusion that the killing of Mayor Espinosa was premeditated and with abuse of authority on the part of the operatives of CIDG8."

Let me quote another line, nakalagay po dito-

"The committees are convinced that the circumstances point out to a systematic clean-up made on any living trace that may reveal their involvement in the Espinosa drug trade."

And of course, it's a much longer and more comprehensive report, pero I'd like to just quote those two lines. Mukhang nagkakasundo po ang original DOJ panel, ang NBI, at ang mga committee ng Senado na meron ngang murder na nagyari. Na mayroon pong nangyaring masamang bagay, masamang pangyayari, that point, not just to homicide, but to murder. Now, lahat ng impormasyon pong ito, nasa inyo po, USEC Orceo, if i'm not mistaken. Tama po?

Usec. Orceo: Not all, Your Honor. I don't have a copy on record of the Senate report, Your Honor.

Sen. Bam: Alright, so hindi mo pa nakuha yung Senate report at that time.

Usec. Orceo: Yes, Your Honor.

Sen. Bam: Alright. But nakuha mo yung DOJ Panel-

Usec. Orceo: Yes, Your Honor, because that's part of the records of the case, Your Honor.

Sen. Bam: At nakapaloob doon ang investigative findings ng NBI, tama po?

Usec. Orceo: Yes, that's correct, Your Honor.

Sen. Bam: Alright. So USEC Orceo, can you walk us through- nakuha mo na yung original DOJ Panel Report, alam mo yung nasabi ng NBI, I don't think the medicolegal is here, but I remember in the first hearing, nabanggit po ng medicolegal na tila imposible na nagharapan sila nung nagkaroon ng barilan. Yung isa- yung victim or si Espinosa, parang nakahiga, noh. Parang ganun po yung nasabi ng medicolegal. So, they also had some analysis, noh, tungkol dun sa firefighting na nangyari, and maybe NBI also had that same analysis na kasama po sa report nila. Lahat po yan, nasa inyo. How come- baliktad po yung conclusion po ninyo, kasi yung conclusion po ng ibang mga tao, murder ito, premeditated, and in fact the committee even said this is part of a systematic clean-up of the drug trade, bakit po yung lumabas sa inyong report, binaba at ginawang homicide? Ano po yung nagbago dun sa mga nakita po ninyo, kaya naging bago po ang inyong report?

Usec. Orceo: Your Honor, let me start with the yardstick- and you're going to qualify crime *inaudible*, it is not simply premeditated. The rule said, evident premeditated. That's too technical. The evidence, the sufficient lapse of time, should be there for the offense of the *inaudible* and murder. And that's what I find that's lacking in the panel Prosecution's report. One thing- the panel didn't even include the positive result of the forensic examination, which was already in the NBI record, there was a report of the NBI that they found that there was a positive on the hands of both the deceased, Espinosa and Yap, Your Honor.

Sen. Bam: So, yun yung naging basehan mo sa pag-downgrade?

Usec. Orceo: Among others, Your Honor.

Sen. Bam: Okay, but the main was hindi evident yung premeditation?

Usec. Orceo: Under the jurisprudence, there must be a sufficient lapse of time from the time the [crime] was planned, and its execution.

Sen. Bam: Alam mo, naka dalawang- naka one and a half years lang ako ng law school, pero diba may ruling na yan na pag hindi naman siya ginawa in a spur-of-the-moment, diba? Maybe one of the lawyers here can help us. Wasn't there a case na even if it happens in a short span of time, it can still be premeditated kasi meron kang time to pause? If I'm not mistaken, help me out Prosecutor Alejo. Hindi ho ba may parang lesson yun noon na kapag meron kang panahon na puwede kang tumigil, pero tinuloy mo pa rin, it still becomes premeditated, is that right, uh, Prosecutor Alejo?

Prosecutor Alejo: Yes, sir.

Sen. Bam: Can you help explain that hindi naman yun sa oras, diba? Sa panahon yun na pwede kang tumigil.

Prosecutor Alejo: Yes, sir, usually po, kapag- ang usual example given by the books is that where there is a fight between the litigants and then the other one went home or left the scene and then yung oras po binibilang doon, na pag bumalik siya doon tapos pinatay niya yung tao, yun po eh- he was given sufficient time to think about it, nagiging murder po iyan kapag binigyan ng sufficient time na parang lumamig ang ulo niya, and then he still killed the person, that's, parang, premeditation na po iyon. Evident premeditation. Yung kapag spur-of-the-moment, yan, habang nag-aaway sila, tapos he decided to kill, yun po, homicide.

Sen. Bam: Yun ang homicide. Okay, so kung pupunta ka doon, and I don't want to narrate the facts again, kasi napag-usapan na natin ito, tsaka medyo alam na rin 'to ng taumbayan, kung pupunta ka doon, madaling araw, papalabasin mo yung jail guard, papaluhurin mo, tatanggalan mo ng armas, gagalawin mo yung hard drive, hindi ho ba? Tama yun, diba? These are all facts which were already stated. Hindi naman ho siguro yun spur-of-the-moment? Pinaluhod mo yung mga armed guards? Pinatay mo yung hard drive? Pano naging spur-of-the-moment yun? Pano naging homicide yun, USEC Orseo?

Usec. Orceo: The way the police officers conducted these operations, I have no- I am not *inaudible* to that-

Sen. Bam: That's in the report of the NBI.

Usec. Orceo: It's about the judgement of the procedure that is likely addressed to the PNP, Your Honor, because I relied only on the records.

Sen. Bam: So, wala ba yun sa records ng NBI? Director Gierran, wasn't that in your report, that pinalabas yung mga armed guards? Yung jail guards natin, pinaluhod? Ginalaw yung hard drive, wasn't that- that was in your report, naalala ko we talked about that. Hindi po ba?

Dir. Gierran: It's included in the report.

Sen. Bam: So are you saying, Usec. Orseo, yung facts na yun, wala sa report na nabasa mo?

Usec. Orceo: I think it's evidence- with *inaudible* that these- left to the discretion of the court, Your Honor. And, uh-

Sen. Bam: Well, it was first to your discretion. Because ikaw yung nagrecommend. So ikaw muna yung nagkaroon ng discretion, diba?

Usec. Orceo: Yes, exactly, Your Honor. But I want to hear it from the resolution that I signed- mine has been actually, not affirmed but adopted by the regional trial court in Leyte, to be in order, Your Honor. Including main findings on evident- on the lack of evident premeditation.

Sen. Bam: Okay. Iba pa po yung korte. Of course the court will probably accept the recommendation of the DOJ, you are the DOJ after all. Ang gusto kong malaman is yung recommendation mo, pano mo nakuha? Now, itong panel, there were- how many of you who underwent this- lima kayong pumirma, pero may mga kasama pa ba kayong investigators who came up with all of this data? Or kayong lima lang po iyan?

Usec. Orceo: None sir, we just relied on this report of the NBI.

Sen. Bam: Okay, so there were five of you, with the NBI, all pointing to the same thing- pareho po ang inyong conclusion. USEC Orseo, in your case, coming up with your report, ilan po kayo na gumawa ng review ng lahat ng mga documents?

Usec. Orceo: I have five lawyers in my office, Your Honor, that are included in the records, Your Honor.

Sen. Bam: Alright, are they also here?

Usec. Orceo: Yes, Your Honor.

Sen. Bam: Alright. And yung limang abogado po natin, at kayo- kayo po yung team. You're the team that decided on this?

Usec. Orceo: That's right, Your Honor.

Sen. Bam: And were you unanimous in coming up with this conclusion?

Usec. Orceo: Yes, Your Honor.

Sen. Bam: Alright. So, nakita niyo, yung kaparehas nakita ng NBI, ng Prosecutor's Office, ng mga committee ng Senado- you came up with a totally different result. Iba po yung resulta na nakuha po ninyo. Ito po ba'y cinonsult po muna ninyo kay Secretary Aguirre, kay Director Gierran, kay Prosecutor Alejo? Tapos na ba yung report natin? Our report was March 7. So actually, the Senate report was completed already, Chairman. Tapos na po yung Senate Report natin. Before you released it, hindi kayo- 'magsecond opinion naman tayo, tanungin natin ulit, patawag natin si Prosecutor Alejo, patawag natin si Director Gierran, patawag natin yung members of the committee, or even the Committee Secretary to find out, bakit ibang iba yung ating resulta?' Did you do that, USEC Orseo?

Usec. Orceo: Your Honor, we have a different procedure. First, we only rely on the records submitted by the panel of Prosecutors, and then as the reviewing undersecretary, you have to review the records, our service report should not be included, Your Honor, including the Senate Record, Your Honor, unless it was made part of the record of the case, Your Honor.

Sen. Bam: Alright. So, sinasabi mo, binabalewala mo yung Senate Report, noh? Hindi mahalaga yun sa inyo?

Use. Orceo: No, Your Honor. I am saying that we only based on the record. If any document that is not part of the record-

Sen. Bam: Hindi niyo puwedeng gamitin?

Usec. Orceo: Yes, Your Honor, that's correct Your Honor.

Sen. Bam: Alright. But the DOJ- original DOJ report, and the NBI report, and the PNP report, and the Medikolegal report, and the IAS Report, they were all there. Nandoon po lahat iyon.

And more or less, they all pointed to one thing- they all pointed to murder, to premeditation, pero paglabas nung sa inyo, homicide, tsaka walang evident premeditation, tama po?

Usec. Orceo: That's correct, Your Honor.

Sen. Bam: In your procedure, ito po ba'y ginagawa niyo unilaterally, or do the other USECs and Secretary Aguirre, do they have to sign off on it?

Usec. Orceo: No, your honor.

Sen. Bam: So ikaw lang yan?

Usec. Orceo: Yes, Your Honor.

Sen. Bam: So inaako mo itong responsibilidad ng report na ito?

Usec. Orceo: Yes, that's correct, Your Honor.

Sen. Bam: Alright. Nung finally lumabas po ito, what did the fellow members of the DOJ say to you? Hindi ho nila sinabi, USEC Orseo, oh ibang iba yung nasabi namin, ibang iba yung pinagusapan sa mga hearing na narinig po ng publiko, ibang iba po yung NBI, and they are all part of the DOJ family, if I'm not mistaken. Is that correct?

Usec. Orceo: Yes, Your Honor.

Sen. Bam: Meron ho bang lumapit sa inyo at nagsabi, USEC Orseo, bakit naman ganito ito?

Usec. Orceo: No, Your Honor. There is none.

Sen. Bam: Wala?

Usec. Orceo: There is none.

Sen. Bam: Well- Secretary Aguirre, did he ask you? Why is this so different from the reports?

Usec. Orceo: None at all, Your Honor. He did not even *inaudible*.

Sen. Bam: No, I'm talking after.

Usec. Orceo: Even after the issue of the resolution, he didn't even call upon me to ask.

Sen. Bam: Nobody talked to you?

Usec. Orceo: Nobody, Your Honor.

Sen. Bam: Okay, so wala mang nagtanong, your fellow USECs, other members, but did find na nagmotion for reconsideration ang NBI?

Usec. Orceo: I just heard it right now, Your Honor.

Sen. Bam: Oh, you just heard it right now? So hindi mo alam na nagmotion for reconsideration sila?

Usec. Orceo: Yes, Your Honor. Because the motion for reconsideration is not normally filed in my office, but it's still under a different Undersecretary, Your Honor.

Sen. Bam: Alright. Anong ibig sabihin ng homicide instead of murder, so unang una, non-bailable ang homicide, is that correct?

Usec. Orceo: Yes, Your Honor.

Sen. Bam: So ibig kong sabihin niyan, lahat ng mga kinasuhan na dapat nakakulong, pending the case, pending the resolution of the case, they are out right now?

Usec. Orceo: Yes, Your Honor.

Sen. Bam: And when they are out, they are free to do whatever they want to do?

Usec. Orceo: That's correct, Your Honor.

-000-

Sen. Bam: That's correct, noh. Sige, let me go to General Dela Rosa. So General, ano pong status nung mga PNP officers and personnel who are involved in this case? Nasaan po sila ngayon?

Gen. Bato: Some of them, Your Honor, are assigned with the CIDG Region 12, and others are back to Regional Maritime Unit, in Region 8, yun yung present assignment nila.

Sen. Bam: So, they're back, in short. Na parang wala pong nangyari.

Gen. Bato: Because they're restored to full duty status, Your Honor. After they have posted the bail, they are back to full duty status so we can utilize them again as normal police officers.

Sen. Lacson: May I pursue that point, Senator Bam? With your permission?

*Sen. Lacson continues questions*

Sen. Bam: Okay. So, General, yung mga people who are involved dito, including Superintendent Marcos, they are back to regular duty, they are working, they are on the field again, tama?

Gen. Bato: Yes, Your Honor.

Sen. Bam: Is that usual- normal po ba iyon, na kapag may police na kinasuhan, nag-bail, ay ibabalik na to normal duty, or usually po ba, finofloating po ba yun, nilalagay po sa ibang lugar, hindi ho yung binabalik mismo sa field at binabalik to regular duty? Or normal ho iyon? Lahat po ba ng mga may kaso na napa-bail, balik lang kaagad sa pagtatrabaho po nila?

Gen. Bato: Technically, Your Honor-

Sen. Bam: They can?

Gen. Bato: They can.

Sen. Bam: But usually- is that usual? Ganon ho ba yun usually kapang merong pulis involved in a very controversial case, na-downgrade nga because of the recommendation of the DOJ, homicide, and of course, there are agencies and bodies that see it as murder, normal po ba iyon na ibabalik siya, right there at the frontline? Dun mismo, kung saan pwede hong gawin ito ulit? Normal po ba iyon?

Gen. Bato: Uh- not so normal, Your Honor.

Sen. Bam: Oo, so that was your decision po, diba? Na i-reinstate po sila?

Gen. Bato: Again, Your Honor, let me correct you again- that's not reinstatement, Your Honor. Reassignment.

Sen. Bam: Oh, reassignment, kasi ibang region na, ano. But, that was your decision po, General?

Gen. Bato: Yes, Your Honor.

Sen. Bam: Oh, bakit hindi niyo nalang ho nadecide na- oh, anyway may kaso itong mga to, they're on bail, ilagay natin muna sa opisina? Holding group, or kung ano man? Nangyayari naman iyan, diba? May mga floating status, or you assign them to office, sa opisina muna para mamonitor yung mga gawain? Bakit po sila ibabalik doon po mismo sa field kung saan yung last na pinaggalingan nila, may pinatay sila?

Gen. Bato: Your Honor, kapag naguusap po kami ni Presidente, he is always intimating to me na pag ok na yung sila- si Marcos, sayang yung suweldo natin diyan sa kanila, patrabahuhin mo na iyan.

Sen. Bam: So iyong statement po na iyon, di kayo ang nagsabi noon, si Presidente ang nagsabi noon?

Gen. Bato: Ganon your honor. He kept saying sa media na ibabalik niya si Marcos sa trabaho.

Sen. Bam: But general, earlier kasasabi niyo lang po, walang epekto iyong media pronouncements ni Presidente sa gawain niyo. Are you changing your answer? Mayroon po bang epekto ang media pronouncements ni Presidente o wala?

Gen. Bato: As far as the decision of their case there was no influence iyong media pronouncement ni Presidente. But as far as the reassignment back to CIDG full duty assignment, palagi sinasabi ni Presidente na gamitin mo ang mga taong iyan sayang. We lack people on the ground, sumusuweldo ang mga taong iyan, patrabahuin niyo.

Sen. Bam: Do you lack people on the ground?

Gen. Bato: Yes your honor.

Sen. Bam: Kulang ho kayo ng police at operatives.

Gen. Bato: Kulang na kulang your honor.

Sen. Bato: So are you saying, general na kung kayo lang, hindi niyo ibabalik sina Supt. Marcos sa field.

Gen. Bato: Ibabalik ko pa rin po your honor, dahil maraming trabaho your honor.

Sen. Bam: Usual po ba iyon, may kaso. Government agencies like NBI, ang NAPROS, ang Senate nagsabi na ang mga pulis na ito gumawa ng masamang bagay, normal ba na ibalik sila field kung iyon po ang magiging desisyon niyo.

Gen. Bato: As I have said, not so normal your honor.

Sen. Bam: Pero gagawin mo pa rin.

Gen. Bato: But ginagawa ko your honor.

Sen. Bam: And you stand by your decision na i-reinstate siya, ibalik siya sa field?

Gen. Bato: Yes your honor.

Sen. Bam: Sa totoo lang general, na-shock kaming lahat dito firstly noong na-downgrade that was a big shock. But the bigger shock was to move to reinstate na parang walang nangyari after all the hearings that we had here. In fact, si chairman na-quote na napamura kung hindi ako nagkakamali and that's not usual. What signal does this send sa taumbayan at sa members of the PNP. Kasi ang lumalabas, kahit gumawa ka ng mali, hindi lang iyan pananaw ng Senado, pananaw iyan ng ahensiya ng gobyerno, kung gumawa ka ng mali, as long as na OK ka sa nasa taas, babalik ka rin na parang walang nangyari. That's the signal being sent to the public. Can you comment on that?

Gen. Bato: Siguro your honor kung na-convict siya sa court at ibinalik natin, mukhang may bad signal. Pero iyong dumaan sa proseso, nakapag-bail bond sila, nakulong na sila. Habang nakakulong sila, na-downgrade from murder to homicide and they are back to full duty status. Kung ina-afford natin iyan sa ordinary criminal ang proseso, siguro naman sa ordinaryong pulis puwede rin nating ibigay your honor.

I have to jump in your statement, that is leading towards impunity, ang ibig mong sabihin, hindi po mangyayari iyan your honor.

Sen. Bam: Kayo po ang nagsabi noon.

Gen. Bato: I'm sure that you will follow up that statement, your honor, unahan na lang kita.

Sen. Bam: Ano ba ang ibig sabihin ng impunity? Impunity na tuluy-tuloy ang paggawa ng masama.

Gen. Bato: Parang wala na silang...

Sen. Bam: Kumbaga above the law na sila.

Gen. Bato: Above the law na sila na they can do whatever they want. Hindi po mangyayari iyan sa akin your honor. I will do anything to stop impunity.

Sen. Bam: I've said this many times, alam ko mabubuting tao ang nasa PNP, pero there are times na kailangang manindigan tayo sa alam nating tama kahit unpopular o kahit may mababangga tayo. In this case, isang grupo lang ito, hindi ko maintindihan why you are risking the credibility of the whole police force for these individuals na para sa amin dito, napakalinaw naman na gumawa sila ng masamang bagay, nag-murder. Why are you risking everything for Supt. Marcos and his group. Last question chairman, iyong pag-reinstate kay Supt. Marcos, nakataas ba ito o nakababa ng morale ng PNP?

Gen. Bato: Nakataas po, your honor.

Sen. Bam: Bakit po?

Gen. Bato: Because the President is a man of his word. Sinabi niya, kapag kayo'y magkaroon ng problema sa trabaho ninyo, andito ako, baback-up-an ko kayo, hindi ko kayo papabayaan. And, yung ginawa ni Superintendent Marcos, that was in line of duty. So, tinutulungan si Superintendent Marcos na patrabahuhin ulit.

Sen. Bam: So pag nagkaroon ng problema, may tutulong. Yung problema, tama o mali- doesn't matter, or problema lang, pero nasa tama ka? Or problema, kahit nasa mali ka, tutulungan ka pa rin?

Gen. Bato: Well, sa amin sa police, kung hindi gusto yung ginagawa namin, wala na kaming nagagawang tama. Puro mali yung nakikita nila sa amin, so we must be ready to seek of the help of the President kapag ganun palagi.

Sen. Bam: Final question, General- yung dito po sa kaliwa, tingin nila murder, yung dito po sa kanan, tingin po nila murder, tingin po namin murder yan, si USEC Orseo, tingin niya homicide, to be fair. Kayo po, ang tingin niyo po ba this was a regular police operation and walang ginawang mali si Superintendent Marcos, hence, ibinabalik niyo siya sa CIDG 12, or merong unusual, merong abnormal, meron pong masamang nangyari sa pagpatay kay Mayor Espinosa?

Gen. Bato: We believe that mayroong hindi magandang nangyayari doon. Kaya nga sinuspinde natin siya, ang samahan niya dinemote natin, one rank demotion- I signed that resolution. Idedemote siya. May liability sila. But-

Sen. Bam: Hanggang doon na?

Gen. Bato: But, yung pagbalik sa kanila doon sa puwesto, ibang usapan na po iyon. Technically, they can be deployed because they are in full duty status. And I see the order of the President, sabi niya ipagtrabahuhin niyo na iyan, sayang yung suweldo ng mga tao na sumesuweldo, walang ginagawa, lugi ang gobyerno. I see no reason for me not to obey the orders of the President, Your Honor.

Sen. Bam: Alright, salamat po, General. Thank you.

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