Press Release
September 25, 2017

Transcript of Sen. Bam's questions during Senate hearing on Customs' P6.4-billion shabu issue

Sen. Bam: Ilang buwan na tayo dito, nakaladtad na yung mga text message, nakalantad naman po yung mga pag-uusap, more than one witness naman yung nagsalita, kahit yung Office of the Commissioner na mismo nagsabi na may mga lumalapit sa kanila upang makalusot na mga container, and yet lahat ng mga taong nakapangalan dito, nandiyan pa rin sa puwesto. Hindi ba usually, sa isang procedure, isususpend muna, or puwedeng further investigation, parang wala namang- do you understand what I'm saying, Commissioner? Kasi ilang buwan na rin tayo dito, hindi naman sikreto yung mga individuals involved. Bakit nandiyan pa rin? Bakit tuluy-tuloy pa rin?

Commissioner Lapena: When I was the Director General of PDEA, we have conducted investigations. In fact, PDEA has already filed cases against those mentioned in this...

Sen. Bam: Pero wala pong finile-an na miyembro ng Customs?

Commissioner Lapena: There are, your honor.

Sen. Bam: Meron ba? Sinu-sino po iyong finile-an ng PDEA na miyembro ng customs?

Commissioner Lapena: Well I remember former Commissioner Faeldon is one.

Sen. Bam: Wala na ho siya, he has stepped down.

Commissioner Lapena: And then Director Estrella is another.

Sen. Bam: Director Estrella has resigned.

Commissioner Lapena: Yes. Pati *inaudible*.. may I read the case, your honor?

Sen. Bam: Yes.

Commissioner Lapena: They are Commissioner Nicanor Faeldon, Atty. Jolina Marie *inaudible*, Director Mike Myrno Maestro Ocampo, Director Neil Estrella, *inaudible* Joel Pinawin, Oiver Baliente, Atty. Vincent Philip Marunilla, Alexandra Ventura, *inaudible*, Dennis Manego, Dennis Gabirno, Anjan *inaudible*, 'yan po, your honor.

Sen. Bam: 'Yan po yung finile-an ng PDEA, including the other individuals here, dito sa kaso ng droga?

Commissioner Lapena: Yes, your honor. But there are civilians also, your honor. *inaudible*

Sen. Bam: Opo, At yung mga civilians yung mga nagpasok on the other side naman.

Commissioner Lapena: Yes, your honor.

Sen. Bam: Yung mga miyembro ng Customs na finile-an ninyo, have they all left the customs? Are they relieved from their posts or are they still currently in Customs, or iba iba po yung estado?

Commissioner Lapena: We are waiting for the preliminary investigation. This is now with the Department of *inaudible*

Sen. Bam: Okay. Hindi ba medyo weird 'yun na as PDEA, you filed against all these individuals, but as customs, katrabaho niyo sila? Kasi as PDEA, kapag finile-an niyo sila, ibig sabihin, ang paniniwala ninyo, kasabwat sila sa kaso.

Commissioner Lapena: Yes, your honor. If these will be deliberated upon by the Department of Justice, and a case will be filed against them, then they will be given the preventive suspension, your honor.

Sen. Bam: Do you understand what I'm saying, as- formerly as PDEA, chinarge niyo sila, ibig sabihin, yung ahensiya ng PDEA, may paniniwala na meron silang kagagawan sa pagpasok ng droga. Now that you're Customs Commissioner, hindi niyo naman sila sinuspinde.

Commissioner Lapena: Well the Bureau of Justice will include at least the course of the initial process. It's possible also that some of these that have been accused will not be included in the final case.

Sen. Bam: That's a criminal case. But administratively, sa administrative po, iba po iyon. That's within your power to suspend anyone, or in the Customs.

Commissioner Lapena: Yes, your honor.

Sen. Bam: Oh, eh as PDEA, nung finile niyo iyan, ibig sabihin nun, meron kayong paniniwala bilang PDEA Director General, na kasangkot yung mga individuals na iyan, pag dating niyo sa Customs, hindi niyo naman sinuspinde. I understand yung sa DOJ, but that is a criminal case. Sila na yung bahala diyan. But administratively, meron kayong kapangyarihan na isuspinde yung mga individuals na involved dito.

Commissioner Lapena: Yes, your honor. And i'm waiting for the process at the Department of Justice.

Sen. Bam: So kunwari, sabihin ng Department of Justice, hindi dapat sila macharge. Hindi niyo sila isususpinde?

Commissioner Lapena: Well, again, an investigation of the... in fact, a prior investigation is being done *inaudible*

Sen. Bam: Within customs?

Commissioner Lapena: Within customs, your honor.

Sen. Bam: Alright. So, is this- Office of the Commissioner po yung nagiimbestiga nito? Which part of customs is doing the investigation within Customs?

Commissioner Lapena: It is the Intelligence and Investigation Service, your honor.

Sen. Bam: Pero hindi ba yun rin yung chinacharge dito sa mga nangyayari dito?

Commissioner Lapena: We have new director of the Intelligence and Investigation Bureau now. And actually, that's also one reason why we have not started with the administrative aspect of the investigation, because after the Director of Intelligence and Investigation is just assured last Friday.

Sen. Bam: Okay, kailan matatapos yung sarili niyong imbestigasyon sa Customs?

Commissioner Lapena: Uhm, I cannot say definitely.

Sen. Bam: Kasi kung sa totoo lang, that's part of the resolution of this whole case, kung ano yung mangyayari criminally, ano yung mangyayari administratively. At parang hindi ata puwede matigil 'tong Committee Hearing - mahaba na 'tong Committee Hearing natin, nakakarami na tayo, pero kung hindi magiging malinaw kung ano yung mga hakbang na gagawin ninyo bilang bagong head ng Customs, kailangan natin mabantayan 'yan. Kasi hindi ba kataka-taka, kayo yung PDEA, may finile-an kayo, ngayon na kayo yung Customs, hindi niyo fifile-an. Eh parang as PDEA, you did your investigation. Nagawa niyo naman yung trabaho niyo bilang PDEA.

Commissioner Lapena: Yes, your honor.

Sen. Bam: So meaning, when you filed those charges against DOJ, nakataya diyan yung pangalan niyo, yung reputasyon niyo- hindi niyo naman sinasabing bale wala yung finile ng PDEA sa DOJ.

Commissioner Lapena: That's right, your honor. That's why I mentioned here that our Director for Intelligence and Investigation Service has just assumed.

Sen. Bam: So hihintayin natin iyan. Hopefully, maraming lalabas na mga information from the Senate Hearing, from your own investigations sa PDEA, gusto nating makita, may resolution na mangyayari. Kasi ang pinakapangit dito, usap tayo nang usap, wala namang nangyayari. Ganun din lang. That's the worst na puwedeng mangyari. Now, pangalawa, yung mga changes sa Customs, with all due respect Commissioner Lapena, hindi na sapat yung paglipat ng dalawang kolektor. It's not enough. Hindi magiging sapat yung reporma na pagpalit ng dalawang kolektor, hindi rin sapat yung sasabihan niyo lang sila. Kasi i'm sure in the past, marami na ring Commissioner ang nagsabi, huwag niyong gawin iyan. At nakita niyo naman, lumipat lang yung venue ng pagdistribute ng pera. Inaasahan natin na pag nandiyan na kayo, at sabi nga ni Sen. Lacson na mataas yung tingin niya sa inyo, kailangan makahanap tayo ng paraan na matigil yung ganiyang klaseng sistema. Now, paglipat ba ng customs collector, yun na yung pinakasolusyon natin? Siguro naman, meron pa tayong ibang solusyon na gagawin sa customs?

Commissioner Lapena: There are other long-term measures that we are taking. Yung mga binanggit ko are shorter, but we have long-term measures at there's a list of *inaudible* that we are going to take.

Sen. Bam: Alright, puwede naming malaman kung ano yung mga planong iyon? You can just update it kung ayaw niyo banggitin ngayon, baka gusto niyo nakasikreto- i'm aware that many of these long-term solutions will require a budget. Kailangan ng dagdag sa budget niyo iyan.

Commissioner Lapena: Yes, your honor. One of those will require a budget, your honor.

Sen Bam: Ito po yung paglagay ng x-ray machine sa lahat ng port, that's been suggested po, Commissioner.

Commissioner Lapena: Yes, your honor. There are several, your honor. For example, the putting up of the automation of *inaudible*. And then also the implementation of counterintelligence section. All of those will require additional budget.

Sen. Bam: Yung pinakamainam na solution is transparency. Kasi habang sikreto yung mga proseso, mga pangyayari, mga pag-iinspect kapag kaya itong malitis sa mata ng publiko, malaki yung tsansa na may mangyayaring kababalaghan diyan. So one of the suggestions was maglagay ng x-ray machines sa lahat, at yung feed niyan ay nakikita ng publiko. Kasi siyempre, yung mga legitimate businessmen, ayaw nila na may mga smuggled na produkto. So ang isang suggestion diyan, gawing transparent talaga yung proseso na pagchecheck. Hindi ito nakasikreto, hindi ito nakalimita lang sa mga kolektor, o sa mga ahensiya ng customs. That was just suggested, hindi ko alam kung iyan yung best solution, pero siguro magandang pag-aralan ninyo kung ano yung pinakamainam na solution. Now, *inaudible*, so meaning, maraming sinasabi na solusyon, but at the end of the day, kung ang discretion ng mga bagay-bagay na iyan ay sa iilang tao, napakalaki nung pera at napakadaling matempt, madaling maabot iyan ng napakalaking pera. So baka yung pinakamainam na paraan, talagang gawin nating transparent yung mga proseso. That's a suggestion, but itong pagpasok ng droga, hindi talaga acceptable sa ating panahon. It is the number 1 focus of the government, kayo pong PDEA alam niyo iyan, at yung pagpasok po ng ganiyan kalaking droga, hindi siya katanggap-tanggap talaga. And if our systems remain na nakasikreto, remain yung mga taong involved dito ay may kapangyarihan pa rin na galawin yung sistema, at sabi nga ninyo, tuloy pa rin yung TARA, eh ano yung assurance natin na walang pumasok na droga in the last few months? Naghehearing po tayo dito, wala po tayong assurance.

Commissioner Lapena: For your information, I have suspended the green lane. And all the container vans must pass through the x-ray. And I've been monitoring if these suggestions is not ridiculed...

Sen. Bam: Hindi po. In fact, yung x-ray machines natin, I think, kahit 40kph, kaya iyang...

Commissioner: That's right. That's why the green lane remains to be suspended.

Sen. Bam: Ano yung sabi niyo, meron pa ring nagbabayad, meron pa ring nagta-TARA. Ano yung tina-TARA nila?

Commissioner Lapena: Well, that's the information I'm getting. When I check the data, I saw that may benchmarking pa rin. For example, dun sa mga data na nakita ko, may 79,000, and then mga 5 or 6 container vans. So if you ask us, ano yung mga content ng mga container vans na iyon, are they different? So that's actually a benchmarking. So there is that benchmarking, then the TARA is there.

Sen. Bam: Opo. So in short, kahit naka x-ray pa iyan, kung yung nag-aaccess ay may kapangyarihan na iassess yan sa kung anong tingin niya, posible pa ring hindi mo tatanggalin itong pagta-TARA? Tama po?

Commissioner Lapena: Yes, your honor, that's why i'm closing the moment of the examiners also.

Sen. Bam: Siguro, at this point, maybe i'll ask the last point, Commissioner Lapena. Yung reforms na hinahanap natin, hindi sapat yung paglilipat ng tao. I think - apat na taon na ko dito, but almost every administration, merong skandalo pagdating sa customs. And in the end, the reforms that are implemented are not enough to really solve the problem. Sana po, you're in a unique position, ilang buwan pa lang po kayo, ituloy-tuloy niyo na rin yung mga repormang kailangan. And if it means changing systems, which I honestly think is the only solution to solve this problem, gawin na natin. Because maraming problema na nakakarating dito sa Senado, eh sawang sawa na rin kami na pakinggan kasi paulit-ulit. We need to have a major change diyan. We wull support you, pero palagay ko kung ang pinakasolution ay maglipat ng examiner, paglipat ng kolektor, ay hindi na talaga mainam na solusyon. Palagay ko ay babalik at babalik lang iyan, baka pag-als ninyo or in a few months, baka bumalik lahat iyan.

Commissioner Lapena: I will do that, your honor. In fact, I started talking with people on the ground, not only the officers. I have visited ports in Mindanao, Cagayan De Oro, Vigan, and I have *inaudible*... as well as the.. *inaudible*, within that span of time.

Sen. Bam: Yung x-ray sa Davao, bukas na siya?

Commissioner Lapena: One is not, your honor. Because our problem is space. In fact, *inaudible*, I know the family that is-

Sen. Bam: This is the Reta case?

Commissioner Lapena: Yes, your honor. I'm going to talk with them. And I think I can investigate there, but we will allow the use of-

Sen. Bam: The x-ray?

Commissioner Lapena: Yes, your honor.

Sen. Bam: Alright. So definitely, yung isang long-term solution, pero puwede namang medium-term, is magkaroon ng x-ray. Ang idadagdag ko doon, sana transparent yung theme na iyon, na puwedeng makita ng ibang mga grupo kung ano ang nakikita ng x-ray, because then, sabi nga nila yung pinakamagandang kalaban ng dilim, ilaw. So ilawan natin, let's make it transparent. At tignan natin kung magkakaroon pa rin ng undervaluation kung gawin nating transparent sa mga ports yung pagchecheck.

Commissioner Lapena: That's right. And last night I had a talk with the President, and he said that he will support the purchase of *inaudible*

Sen. Bam: Kung hindi ako nagkakamali, well, ano ba yung plano? Kasi yung narinig kong isang plano mula sa isang Congressman, 25B yung kailangan mo para malagyan ng x-ray lahat ng mga ports natin. Are you suggesting na lahat ng port, meron kayong x-ray or yung malalaki lang na port?

Commissioner Lapena: Well, if we can have x-rays in all the ports...

Sen. Bam: Mas maganda, ano?

Commissioner Lapena: Yes, your honor.

Sen. Bam: Alright. So, I think many of us will support that, Commissioner. At siguro po, idagdag natin na yung feed, hindi lang makikita ng iilang tao, gawin na nating transparent, real time. Wag na po yung isang buwan bago makita yung feed na iyon. Gawin nating real time, magkalantaran na, and the private sector, alam naman nating nahihirapan din kapag may smuggle, especially yung farmers natin, puwede rin silang mag*inaudible* ng mga watchdog groups, at bantayan yung pagpasok ng mga smuggled items sa ating bansa.

Commissioner Lapena: That's right, your honor. In fact, I have to talked with the district *inaudible*, and he has said that we're willing to... *inaudible*, and he will support the reforms that will be issued. *Inaudible*... facilitated process. And we will deliver that, your honor.

Sen. Bam: Alright. Salamat Commissioner, siguro babalikan ko lang, hinihintay rin po natin yung assessment ng DOJ kung sino yung kakasuhan sa mga kasong ito. I'm sure hinihintay niyo rin po ito. And maybe for the record Mr. Chairman, hinihintay rin po natin si Commissioner Faeldon, gusto natin siyang makausap kasi palagay natin siya rin yung maraming nalalaman tungkol sa mga pangyayari dito, at yung marapatin niya na harapin tayo dito sa Senado, hindi naman natin siya babastusin, kung meron siyang tanong na ayaw sagutin, he can invoke his right to self incrimination, pero yung mga tanong natin ay *inaudible* upang pahirapan siya, pero upang malaman natin yung mga nalalaman niya. Kasi maraming beses lumalabas yung sakitang OCom - OCom is Office of the Commissioner, Mark, noh? At magandang sabihin rin niya yung pananaw niya dito and dun sa nakaraang hearing, lumabas rin na pinupuntahan siya. I don't know. Commissioner, meron na po bang pulitikong nakiusap sa inyo mula sa mga grupo? Mga players po?

Commissioner Lapena: None yet, your honor.

Sen. Bam: Wala naman ho? You're under oath, ano? So, walang tumawag, walang nagtext dun sa Pangkayan group, Gamboa group, Davao group, Teves group, yung limang binanggit ni Senator Lacson, meron na po bang nagpanggap sa inyo?

Commissioner Lapena: No, your honor.

Sen. Bam: Through any means? Intermediary, calls, text, email, kung ano po?

Commissioner Lapena: None at all, your honor.

Sen. Bam: Alright, that's good to know. At gusto kong malaman yung kay Commissioner Faeldon. Sabi kasi noon, marami daw pulitikong tumatawag sa kanya. Magandang ilantad nalang niya dito at magkaalaman na tayo.

Commissioner Lapena: That's right, your honor.

Sen. Bam: And I think, the more transparent we are, si Mark has been very transparent dito, the more transparent we are, the more natin to masosolusyonan. Do you agree, Commissioner?

Commissioner Lapena: Yes, your honor.

Sen. Bam: Maraming salamat po. Commissioner, Chairman, thank you for your time.

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